[IKLOL]

"According to the Christian faith, salvation is both by faith and by works. Faith is necessary for salvation, as it is through faith that we accept God's grace and forgiveness. But works are also important, as our actions demonstrate our faith and commitment to following God's will."

Totally and completely wrong. Salvation is by faith alone through the grace of God alone and the Bible is completely clear about that throughout.

Anyone who tries to be saved through their own merit will likewise perish.

[shagie]

http://www.coptic.net/lessons/FaithAndWorks.txt

> The absence of good works means that faith is dead and fruitless. Therefore, good works are the fruits of faith and the evidence of its presence, and with such, faith is perfected. Good works, however, are not from our volition only. We need the support of God's grace and the work of the Holy Spirit within us, for Jesus said "Without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5)

From United Methodist Doctrine:

> Faith is necessary to salvation unconditionally. Good works are necessary only conditionally, that is if there is time and opportunity. The thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43 is Wesley's example of this. ... However, for the vast majority of human beings good works are necessary for continuance in faith because those persons have both the time and opportunity for them.

> ...

> United Methodist doctrine thus understands true, saving faith to be the kind that, give time and opportunity, will result in good works. Any supposed faith that does not in fact lead to such behaviors is not genuine, saving faith.

Not all variations of Christianity are in agreement on faith and faith alone.

[IKLOL]

Obviously I agree that good works are something that Christians should strive to have. But works are not saving, and anyone looking to their works to save them will perish, as Jesus clearly states in the Bible:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many *wonderful works*?"

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Jesus is talking here about people that look to their good deeds as evidence of their salvation. When they meet Jesus they tell him all the great things they have done, but completely forget about the key to salvation which is faith alone.

Christian sects are not in agreement of this because some Christian sects do not offer a saving gospel. Catholicism does not offer a saving gospel, for example.

We'd all do good to focus on the Bible as the final authority, and not the teaching and writing of men.

[shagie]

> We'd all do good to focus on the Bible as the final authority

Which edition?

[IKLOL]

The quote I quoted above from Jesus Christ himself is basically the same between versions. I'm not falling into a debate about Bible versions when Jesus is very clear about the main issue I'm talking about.

[shagie]

What is then the position of James 2:14-26? Is that not also correct? Or was that improperly included in canon and now we're picking and choosing to only acknowledge the gospels and select passages from the old testament as acceptable?

> For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

[WastingMyTime89]

Sola gracia and sola fide are both major points of contention of the Reformation so totally and completely wrong might be a bit strong here. Unless you are trying to settle once and for all the Protestant schism in one decisive HN comment in which case I admire your optimism.

[jason-phillips]

Your cousin, the king of France, says differently. Shall we have a war?

[IKLOL]

The Catholic church has perverted the gospel in many ways.

-Infant baptism, not found in the Bible

-Baptism by sprinkling, not found in the Bible

-Celibacy for church leaders, not found in the Bible

-Salvation by works, condemned in the Bible

-Mother Mary worship, condemned in the Bible

-Worship in front of statues, condemned in the Bible

-Opulence and extravagance in the church, condemned in the Bible

-Praying to anyone but God, not found in the Bible

I could go on...

[dragonwriter]

> The Catholic church has perverted the gospel in many ways

Whichever side of Catholic-Protestant disputes is a perversion, we can avoid inventing false ones as a slander. (The Decalogue, as I recall, has something to say about that.)

> Salvation by works, condemned in the Bible

The Catholic Church does not believe in justification by works but that works are the fruit of justification; for a rather more thorough explanation, see, the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification By the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church. [0]

[0] (pdf) https://www.lutheranworld.org/sites/default/files/Joint%20De...

[Pigalowda]

Occasionally I like reading Leviticus. Because it’s in the Bible, do you agree with everything in Leviticus?

[shagie]

(aside - Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew is an interesting book. There were arguments and heresies and divisions in the early church between the Gnostic and proto-orthodox (and other) branches that played out in the scriptures, forgeries, and later edits to each)