[kentlyons]

The problem with swapping is the battery is a very large portion of the residual value of the car. While functionally very different it'd be more like swapping out the engine or transmission in an ICE car. You don't want to roll in with 20k miles on the odometer and roll out with 250k miles!

This is actually the same issue with using EV batteries for grid tied storage. You end up putting (many) more cycles on the battery which devalues your car.

[comte7092]

That’s actually kind of the benefit.

You lease the battery, so the capital outlay for the consumer is significantly lower.

Since you can get your battery swapped you also don’t even have to worry about battery longevity either.

[cle]

If the batteries are cheaply swapped out then why would buyers care about the current battery that's in the car?

[bryanlarsen]

Nio batteries aren't owned, they are leased.

[jillesvangurp]

Exactly. You can do things like swap out a small battery for a large one when you need one. Or an empty one for a full one if you are in a hurry. The whole process only takes a few minutes.

Not lugging around hundreds of kilos of batteries you don't need makes the car more efficient. Just swap in a big one when you need one. And you don't have to worry about battery life either as long as the battery is within specs, you are good to go. And if it isn't you just replace it and get another one.

Makes the car cheaper to buy but probably more expensive to use. And NIO gets to re-purpose the older batteries for things like grid storage without having to wait a few years for the cars to come back.

[dale_glass]

You don't really want a small battery, even if you don't need the full capacity.

Batteries degrade the most near their limits, so a large battery that you use a small part of most of the time will live far longer than if you had a battery with just the capacity you need.

The optimal strategy is having configurable charge levels. Eg, Dell laptops allow you to tell it to only use 80% of the battery to preserve battery life when you don't need the full capacity. Then before going on a trip you change the setting and charge it fully.

[jillesvangurp]

If you drive around in a city. You have no need for a big battery. It's dead weight and you pay for it in the form of more electricity cost. If you don't own but lease the battery and can swap it at will at one of NIO's swapping stations, you just do that before a long journey. Battery longevity is a concern for NIO, not for you.

BTW. EVs are not like phones and laptops. Modern ones have batteries that likely outlive the vehicle. A full charging cycle is good for 200-300 miles. 3000 cycles times 300 is 900000 miles. Mostly other things in the car will break before you reach that point. Depending on the battery type, you get at least 1000-1500 cycles and more in some cases. Even a modest 450000 miles is pretty decent for cars. Most ICE vehicles go to scrap yard long before that.

[dale_glass]

> If you drive around in a city. You have no need for a big battery. It's dead weight and you pay for it in the form of more electricity cost. If you don't own but lease the battery and can swap it at will at one of NIO's swapping stations, you just do that before a long journey. Battery longevity is a concern for NIO, not for you.

There's no free lunch. You're paying for that battery, either upfront, or through the rental. NIO therefore will choose whatever maximizes battery longevity, not whatever you think is best. If you're renting and don't own it, your ideas on battery weight are not relevant.

The most likely choice for NIO to make is what Tesla does: give everyone a big battery, then charge them extra (and probably a lot) to unlock its full capacity.

Li-Ion risks fatal damage if discharged too deeply. Especially if it's going to be rented, a safety measure against that would be making the car refuse to ever dip below say 20%, as well as refusing to charge above 80% or so.

Then, for a special payment, or temporarily as a courtesy if emergency situations (eg, incoming tornado), you can have the full capacity unlocked.

> Modern ones have batteries that likely outlive the vehicle.

So long they're well cared for, yes. But if you don't own the battery, you might not care to take precautions. Hence, the owner will likely try to ensure by all means possible you can't kill it even if you try.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I strongly suspect there will be an underground economy for fake Nio batteries.

[dr-detroit]

postswap EV will need to be banned from parking garages