[freemanon]

It's nothing to do with capitalism, it's all about installing regimes that are pro-US, and allow US enterprises to exploit these countries. Indonesia has a lot of resources, including the Grasberg mine in west Papua, that it leases out to US companies with very little benefit for the local population, instead pocketing millions in bribes. It's also a huge country of 200+ million of huge geopolitical importance.

The US is simply a thug. It has too much firepower for its own good. It's drunk on its ideologies of freedom or democracy or what have you, that it can never recognise its mistakes.

[avidphantasm]

It has everything to do with capitalist accumulation of resources. Capitalism is the algorithm that drives US behavior.

[freemanon]

Yes but no. You can be capitalist without letting the rich 0.1% control the government. The US is a result of puritanism of the freedom of speech. Citizens United vs Federal Election commission case confirms that in the US, Money is Speech. That is, lobbying is legal. Huge donations to politicians are legal. It's as corrupt as governments go. Not to mention the role of the media in all this. There are many capitalist societies, e.g. singapore, that do not let their governments become corrupted by capital.

[skinnymuch]

Capitalism will always get the rich 0.1% controlling the government. How do you think Europe functions?

Singapore is a city-state. Tiny countries like Iceland or special cases like Macau or Hong Kong shouldn't count.

[freemanon]

I abhor capitalism as much as you do, but economic system and political system are separate although interlinked. Why shouldn't we count Singapore just because it's small? They have a parliament and all other branches of government just like any other nation. HK is different though as it is ruled by a CEO.

My point is capitalism itself is not necessarily the root of all evils; it is puritanism, dogmatism, and when it comes to the US, it's their puritanical approach to "freedom" that ironically makes the majority of the population less free and less democratic. A communist, planned economy is as much capable of creating an incompetent government and society if there were no political, ethical and cultural wisdom.

To summarise, capitalism is abhorrent, but there are other dimensions.

[skinnymuch]

Okay Singapore counts. It’s still capitalism and capitalism is a right wing ideology. Cuba’s govt is doing well too. I always feel uneasy when capitalist societies that were always given near unfettered access to the Global South and free trade because the Global North didn’t sanction them. Those countries had it on easy mode. They didn’t do what Cuba has done. Or what Russia did in a few decades after 1917 or what China did in the 50s. I’m bordering on sounding like a tankie now, but I’m more so defending countries and people that had to do things the hard way.

Nothing is the root of all evil but “evilness” has almost always been done from a right wing perspective. Yes authoritarian leftists exist but I’d argue it’s impossible not to have to behave like Cuba with freedom restrictions does when America and by extension, the Global North are capitalist and imperialist bullies coming after you.

I still mourn for my parent’s country having us have their socialist leader murdered and replaced by an awful fascistic dictator.

[skinnymuch]

The world was in a Cold War after the communists (Soviets) defeated the Nazis. America did the mass murder and suppression of people in my Indonesia example (Jakarta Method) to suppress communism in support of capitalism. There's been videos recently on Youtube going over US led coups. The amount to stop socialism is the vast majority. Coups don't include various massacres and suppression of communists either.

It kind of hurts to hear people still think this. My parents home country had coups taking out leftist socialist leaders and installing awful dictators. Capitalism is evil. Capitalists should have left socialists alone after World War 2.