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I dont understand. I have found that when you argue with a flat earther or an atheist, they typically argue the same way. Flat-earthers have tons of "scientific evidence" they want to show you, same for conspiracy theory people, they always have lots of evidence and painstakingly construct rational arguments around possibly faulty assumptions. Athiests are not special in this way! Even in particular I find conspiracy theory people and athiests share a lot of rhetorical devices. And further, I have never ever ever met an "athiest" in the world that would even think about questioning their own beliefs, why would they? Wouldnt it be irrational for them too? What could ever make an atheist change their mind? God could come down and tell everyone in the world she is real, and I bet atheists would pick it apart, going over the footage, proving how it wasn't really God. How could they not, it would mean throwing away so much of their work and existential commitments (I would be like this I think). It is you that are not telling me how these beliefs are different, im not trying to ambiguate, I'm being serious each time I say "belief." Edit: Also think about the math one a little more. That is a good one! The belief in "1+1=2" involves understanding things like cardinality or summation, or you can just remember from school. But either way what you believe about it is that it is self-evident insofar as there is a shared understanding of the rules for those symbols. That "1" is a certain kind of thing, and so is "+" and "=". But in reality there is nothing about this situation that precludes that someone else could understand "1+1=2" differently. They could have been taught for some terrible reason that there is an exception in the rule of addition which means whenever you add 768 to 406, you get "potato". And yet, you wholly agree that 1+1=2. How could we verify our shared understanding without going through all the rules and making sure we are the same. But there is nothing in experience or in science that can justify that we are on the same page, so to speak, as those we communicate with. Its a belief because we always find ourselves among people and we strive for agreement, or already find ourselves in agreement. Kripke does a better job of explaining this than me :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittgenstein_on_Rules_and_Pr... |
> I have found that when you argue with a flat earther or an atheist, they typically argue the same way. Flat-earthers have tons of "scientific evidence" they want to show you.
Sure, lots of people argue by presenting evidence. Evaluating the quality of that evidence is something humanity has gotten much better at in general, but it does take some work. The fact that scientists and crackpots both claim to present evidence doesn't mean that the act of presenting evidence is flawed.
> I have never ever ever met an "athiest" in the world that would even think about questioning their own beliefs. Wouldnt it be irrational for them too?
It sounds to me like you've literally never met an atheist. Talk to one. And no, questioning your own beliefs is almost the defintion of rationality. Why would it be irrational to question your own beliefs?
> What could ever make an atheist change their mind?
Evidence.
> God could come down and tell everyone in the world she is real, and I bet atheists would pick it apart, going over the footage, proving how it wasn't really God.
"Footage?" It's not clear whether your hypothetical is "Clouds open and God appears before you, speaking in a divine voice" -- evidence! -- or "someone comes out with grainy footage of something that could maybe kinda look a bit God-ish". Details matter!
> How could they not, it would mean throwing away so much of their work and existential commitments (I would be like this I think).
I have done literally no work being an atheist. It takes none of my time, except for the occasional pointless online discussion like this. I have literally no "existential commitments". It's not an important part of my identity. It's literally the lack of all of those things.
How much work has it been for you not believing in Zeus?
Honestly, we're trodding the same exact path that has been trodden a million times. Literally read any prominent atheist and you will have the answers to most of your questions.