[jcbrand]

> And this is exactly why "tripping" is heavily frowned upon by serious meditators and spiritual practitioners.

This is needlessly judgmental. I know life-long meditators, 30+ of years disciplined practice who sometimes take psychedelics.

I'm not a fan of various aspects of the psychedelic scene, e.g. the spiritual bypassing and the narcissism that can sometimes come from it, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Usage of psychedelics can be profoundly healing and helpful.

[zozbot234]

> I know life-long meditators, 30+ of years disciplined practice who sometimes take psychedelics.

I'm not dismissing spiritual practice, but psychedelics are entirely incidental to it and can be a snare for the unprepared mind. What's "profoundly healing and helpful" is always the spiritual part, not the means used to achieve it.

[TheOtherHobbes]

And yet "spiritual" people are at least as prone to narcissism as everyone else. IMO one of the reasons spirituality of all kinds - including both traditional and non-traditional religion - has remained so consistently popular that it provides such excellent cover for more base actions and desires.

If you've found a drama-free spiritual community where everyone is deeply chilled and yet also adult and effective without losing a sense of humour, please let me know. That really hasn't been my experience.

In fact I think mindfulness, meditation, and so on confuse a kind of metaphysics of morality with what is probably some fairly basic brain mode switching.

Being "enlightened" for a brief period does not seem to create good people with any consistency or reliability. It doesn't even create consistently happier people. (Sometimes? Yes. More reliably and safely than other activities? Very likely not.)

It does seem to remove certain existential tangles, sometimes. But rather than being about "ego" - boo, hiss - perhaps those are more to do with easy/default vs less accessible modes of emotional cognition.

And actually - that's all.