[kfrzcode]

Take some pain reliever and chew on it...

Also maybe modern times is most commonly known as like the last 2k years or so. Egyptians and Mayans and Olmec and so many other cultures have left fingerprints of their engineering prowess. Listen to Graham Hancock with earnest and you'll have a mystery on your hands.

[wolverine876]

Usually, modern history in this sense begins with the Rennaisance (~13th-15th cen). 2,000 years encompasses the Middle Ages, which are held up as nadir of history.

[defrost]

> 2,000 years encompasses the Middle Ages

Err, ~ 850 years, maybe 1,000 years at most, from the fall of Rome ( ~470 CE ) to the beginning of the 14th Century (1301 CE) perhaps to 1501 CE depending on your historian of choice.

> held up as nadir of history.

Not so much a low point of human activity, but definitely a low point in the human activity of recording history.

[cbfrench]

>the Middle Ages, which are held up as a nadir of history.

Mostly as a result of Renaissance- and Enlightenment-era propagandizing. I think we’ve mostly moved beyond that reading of history, thankfully.

[wolverine876]

I've seen people say that many times, without addressing the merits of the issue. And I've seen many strawperson arguments - i.e., the Middle Ages weren't uniformly awful - but nothing that compares the track records of before and after.

It seems straightforward - most of what we have is post-Middle Ages, from our political systems to our economies, science, technology, arts; and the results are orders of magnitude better.

[unmole]

> encompasses the Middle Ages, which are held up as nadir of history

If you think only Europe matters, sure.

[UncleMeat]

It is still wrong even if you think only Europe matters!