[ttymck]

It's possible I've not worked with a good PM, but the fact remains that I haven't seen the industry _incentivize_ the "good PM" behavior you're describing nor have there been consequences for "bad PMs", so does "good" and "bad" really mean anything?

[kareemm]

There are lots of companies where talking to customers is a requirement for a PM to have continued employment. I’ve worked for more than a few. Seems to me that’s a pretty significant incentive.

[ttymck]

"Talking to customers" is "good PM behavior"? Isn't that like saying "writing code" is "good developer behavior"?