[anonreeeeplor]

I’ve seen this in dealing with Microsoft. Product Managers at these companies all have a type A personality in general. If you want excessive politics and everyone fighting and being a dumb ass it’s the product managers at big companies.

I’m not sure if product managers at small companies and startups act this way.

At the larger companies the people who spend all their time fighting for power seem to be product managers.

It doesn’t make sense at all to me why these people get specifically hired and put into these roles. Because people who want power are defined by the trait of not listening and that is exactly what a Product manager is supposed to be an expert at: Listening.

So you hire people who are guaranteed not to be good at listening and of course you get really bad results.

I think most of these product managers choose these roles because they are more interested in power. Or their managers want power.

[aqme28]

> I’m not sure if product managers at small companies and startups act this way.

Ten years of experience at various startups, and it is absolutely this way.

[edgyquant]

It’s worse. PMs have a tendency to try and creep their way into CEO at startups.

[brookst]

You’re aware that Microsoft didn’t even have a Product Manager title until last year, right?

[allenu]

I worked there for 13 years and worked with a lot of people with the title of Product Manager, or "PM" to be specific. And no, we didn't call them "project managers".

[brookst]

How did you work there for 13 years and not realize that Microsoft “PM” was neither product nor project, but “Program”?

It was a hybrid role that every org did differently, and it was confusing to everyone and made it hard to separate product focus from execution focus.

Last year they split the roles into Product Manager and Technical Program Manager (TPM), and PM’s had to elect which role/title/path to choose.

This is at least true for the Experiences and Devices and Cloud and AI orgs.

Source: work there now, have been there 6 years.

[allenu]

Ah, you got me there. My apologies. You're right. I had forgotten that it was "program" and not "product". (I haven't worked there in a few years and probably mixed it up with product manager titles at a different company.)

To me, it always felt like it was supposed to be an intentional "product" role as opposed to "project", but you're right that it basically was a hybrid where they worked on product but also helped manage the project itself.