[delecti]

I've seen enough people be astonished to learn that their laptop's touchpad is just using haptic trickery to simulate a button that I think their anecdata really just isn't representative. I've seen people who know that it's using haptic trickery use the depth rod of a set of calipers because they just don't believe it.

I think that a poorly engineered power button (one which can become inoperative if the OS freezes) is a terrible idea, but the mere concept of haptic buttons has been pretty well proven.

And I say that as an Apple critic. I've had enough power buttons fail on Android phones that this would actually add a point to the "pros" column (though still not enough to outweigh the "cons" column).

[mrexroad]

Don’t forget that the “home button” on iPhone has simply been a finger print sensor with a haptic response since iPhone 7; no physical travel when pressed.

[solarkraft]

The touchpad's feedback is implemented very low in the firmware, so it almost never fails to respond. The device needs to be catastrophically out of power or catastrophically locked up. Both states are not easy to achieve.

[endemic]

Anecdotally, it’s happened to me multiple times. A good indicator of when the machine needs a hard power cycle.

[f1shy]

I had it 2 times in 7 years os continuous use of the Macbook. It is very rare indeed.

[exallocatepool2]

saw your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34164748 and now I'm curious which manufacturer it is? is it a manufacturer of expensive german cars?

[f1shy]

I would like to keep that not public, I really fear they suing me.

I know many people working in car manufacturers. There the situation is much much worst, as they do not develop, but do the "specification" -- I see a big inclination to think that "doing" anything is pretty easy, what is really difficult is "specify" it.

One friend of mine works in such a company, and, just as example, they specified that all internal communication in the car must be IPv6 (about 10 nodes, so no need for a lot of addresses) -- Maybe they think "more modern, more better". The problem is, the whole internal communication is CAN over IP, meaning 99% of packets are 8 bytes payload, so using IPv6 adds terrible overhead. To the outside world IPv4 was specified, for "compatibility". The interfaces where specified with 2 to 10 Gbps, to "keep latencies low".

More interesting are the discussions of the need of PTP over NTP. Because for some reason I hear "NTP 1 second accuracy, PTP 1 nanosecond accuracy" constantly. They nice thing is: other than airbag, injection and ignition, all other things in a car can tolerate with ease 100ms to 300ms latencies. Even breaks con live with little less than 100ms. So there is no real need for PTP... but "more modern must be more good"... :)

[goosedragons]

I still don't think it feels as good as a real switch, the only benefit is you get a sort of overall meh feeling that works over the whole trackpad surface vs. a good click that only works well at the bottom. This is an okay trade on a giant trackpad but for a tiny button it's not great. It was even more obvious on haptic home buttons that it's not quite right.

[robocat]

> I think that a poorly engineered power button (one which can become inoperative if the OS freezes) is a terrible idea

And a standard “clicky” button that physically fails after a few years use is better? I have seen more than one old iPhone with the accessibility icon on screen, because the physical hardware of the button has failed. Even worse: buttons that go intermittent failure on you - grrrrr.

Disclaimer: I dislike the haptic home button on my SE 2022, so I am somewhat on both sides of the argument. Good engineering is good compromises.