[cianmm]

Interesting article, but they don't link to the data, just suggest that you build the dataset yourself with Google. I'm also not seeing mention of cost of living.

> For ease of comparison we’ve converted all numbers to USD ($).

That seems a strange choice, given that this is Europe. The target market for this blog post must not be Europeans.

[mensetmanusman]

Thankfully (and tragically) the calculation between euro and dollar is very easy now.

[balfirevic]

Why is that tragical?

[mensetmanusman]

Because it is due to the war/pandemic effects…

[ZephyrBlu]

It makes sense to me. It lets you compare against US salaries and standardizes the EU currencies.

[hnlmorg]

You can’t compare salaries without also comparing cost of living. Which is significantly cheaper in many of the cities listed vs SV.

Also there already is a standardised EU currency. It’s even named after the EU: “Euro”.

[ZephyrBlu]

You realize that companies pay SV-like salaries outside of SV now, right? LCOL US salaries can easily be higher than HCOL EU salaries.

This is also exactly the same argument people in the US have tried to make about "SV" salaries vs "normal" salaries.

Ex: "making $100k in the Midwest is better than $300k in SV because COL"

It's plain wrong in almost all cases (Lower COL doesn't make up for lower salary) and SV vs elsewhere in the US is becoming less and less relevant with remote work.

[hnlmorg]

It’s not that simple.

Sometimes lower cost of living absolutely does make up for a lower salary. Ultimately it comes down to disposable income after your expenses are paid. If your cost of living is significantly lower despite your income decreasing, then your disposable income increases despite your salary decreasing.

It’s also why multinational services will often have regional pricing.

This phenomena might not be present in the US (I haven’t lived in enough American cities to make a generalisation here) but it’s absolutely true in Europe.

> SV vs elsewhere in the US is becoming less and less relevant with remote work.

Remote work will be what levels the playing field but we aren’t there yet. Most companies aren’t fully remote. Further more, as weird as it might sound to some on HN, some people do actually enjoy working with colleagues in an office.

So it’s very premature to handwave the cost of living with arguments like “because remote work”

[ZephyrBlu]

Dude, go on https://levels.fyi for 5min and compare US and UK salaries.

US ($339k): https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-...

UK ($200k): https://www.levels.fyi/companies/facebook/salaries/software-...

Lower COL does not make up for $139k USD.

I've seen this exact conversation happen on /r/cscareerquestions about US salaries an uncountable number of times. COL never makes up for the salary difference on the high end. Maybe for median and below salaries, but never for the top percentiles.

E: since you edited in stuff about remote work, I meant in the US. There are a lot of US companies that allow remote work within the US now. I was also talking about SV vs everywhere else in terms of salary difference, not COL. Even with a salary reduction, you're most likely making more than you 'should' in a LCOL area.

[hnlmorg]

But this article IS an about median wages and not specifically about the top percentile!

> Lower COL does not make up for $139k USD

It can if property prices for those top percentiles are more than $139k cheaper.

My house is worth literally twice the price of my mother in laws house and she lives in a larger property. The only difference is she’s at the north end of England and I’m in the south.

Cost of living can vary dramatically in Europe.

[nivenkos]

A lot of EU countries don't use the Euro.

[hnlmorg]

I know, I live in one that doesn’t. However no European county uses USD. So we are much more familiar with seeing Euros as a European benchmark than USD.

Also worth noting, EU is a subset of Europe. London isn’t in the EU but is in Europe.

[nivenkos]

The Euro is basically equal to the USD these days anyway though.

[hnlmorg]

It is but that isn’t the point. You wouldn’t show the wages in any other unrelated currency, like Dogecoin, and say “but the exchange rate is basically equal”.

If you’re measuring European financial assets then they should be represented in a European currency (and if you want to show USD then have that as an additional field or afterwards in brackets).

[Symbiote]

Everyone in Europe but not the Eurozone knows the rough exchange rate between their local currency and the Euro. We see prices in Euros on many foreign trips, and for some online purchases.

[cianmm]

While it does let you compare against US salaries, almost all EU countries use the Euro. Certainly all of the ones mentioned in this post do. If you're interested in just a raw number rather than a cost of living weighted number (which this post seems to ignore), converting any stragglers to Euro would have been simplest for European readers.

That said though, as I mentioned, I don't think Europeans are the target market for this.

[ZephyrBlu]

Well, since this post includes the UK saying "all the countries in this post use Euros" is plain wrong.

I think COL in itself matters far less than people think. COL difference is certainly not proportional to salary difference.

I don't think this is specifically for EU readers either. I think it's aimed at a global audience since they use USD and mention US roles as well as their data on EU roles.

[hnlmorg]

> COL difference is certainly not proportional to salary difference.

No, sometimes the COL is much cheaper than the salary discrepancy. Sometimes it’s worse.

Which is precisely why COL is absolutely vital when making any comparisons.

[cianmm]

Fair point.

[iso1631]

> compare against US salaries

But without factoring in cost of living that's surely rather meaningless too

[ZephyrBlu]

COL varies enormously in the US and yet even LCOL salaries are much higher than in the EU. I don't think COL is that useful when comparing salaries globally.

[hnlmorg]

I don’t think comparing salaries globally is that useful per se. But it’s even less useful if you don’t factor in exchange rates and cost of living.

[ciberado]

Also, my understanding is that in the US each person must dedicate an important amount of money to receive the health services that are provided in Europe by the administration in many countries.

[ZephyrBlu]

US companies provide health insurance for their employees.