[robomartin]

I find it remarkable to note that not a single person, since, well, recorded history on the subject, has ever matched criticism of capitalism with a viable, well-tested and proven alternative. Perfect it is not. And yet, no other system in human history has elevated more people out of poverty than capitalism.

[starky]

Its the old "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all other types that have been tried."

[iroh2727]

Poverty in terms of what? Needs of the body are met for many (though generally with cheap, ugly, and/or low quality products lacking craftsmanship) but needs of the soul are at an all time low. Just judge from the present mental health crisis—likely the worst in human history—which is largely fueled by disconnection which is an inherent feature of capitalism.

The “poverty” narrative a lie, a rehashing of the old “savages” narrative. It goes hand in hand with this idea that "poor" countries need the western world’s help. No they don’t. Has forced indebtedness helped them? No. And most of their people did not even get a say in the matter of becoming indebted. Advertising of nonprofits and the like is still littered with posters of white men kissing little black babies. It’s quite strange.

In fact, America as a culture is quite new and though it has many good qualities, seeds which can be watered to make for a better future, at present it has become especially barbaric, which is of course not news. These other “impoverished” countries generally have much more historic and developed cultures, ways of handling themselves, etc.

Also, it’s not like “capitalism” was proven and tested before “it” came to be. It has been an incredibly complex process. And it’s not that “it” even will be replaced at some single moment. It’s always a process, and this particular process is already underway.

[SQueeeeeL]

Yeah, it's fairly obvious from the fossil records that all humans were using cash back in the tribal nomadic days hundreds of thousands of years ago. There literally has never been any other ways humans have organized other than wage labor.

[cuteboy19]

But of course! We should revert to barter as it is the most optimal system.

[PraetorianGourd]

Do not reply in bad faith. You know the person you are replying to was not saying that capitalism is the only system to ever exist. They were saying that, despite its numerous flaws, it appears to be the most successful system we’ve tried.

[SQueeeeeL]

I'm not replying in bad faith. It is very obvious that capitalism has always been with us and always will be. If you observe birds long enough, you'll start to see them exchange tokens with each other, but results like that rarely get published

[seanhunter]

This is a “no true Scotsman” argument. Any counterexample with a proposed alternative will be criticised as either not viable, untested or unproven and yet pretty much every nation on earth has a system which includes some legal limits on the powers of corporations in order to protect people. Noone just does completely unfettered capitalism. The importance of this principle goes back all the way to the birth of capitalism with Smith’s “Theory of Moral Sentiments”. The important question is how to strike the right balance of protection of workers vs growth and dynamism in the economy.

Notwithstanding that, the social problems arising from extreme inequality (with its roots in a type of capitalism that lacks empathy for people) are very real. I see them all the time in homeless people living beside the freeway when I visit LA or under the underpasses in SF. Here in the UK there is a growing group of working people who have had to choose between heating and eating this winter[1]. I’m not sure they feel like they have been elevated out of poverty.

[1] The guardian has been running a series of “Heat or Eat Diaries” where people document this situation eg https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/14/heat-o...

[adave]

Wow big claims, all the benefit comes from the socialist policies in this feudalist system. All poverty elevating concepts come from there since capitalist is all about greed and progress without caring for human lives.

Don't forget to blink once in a while, might not be seeing things clearly.