[kelseyfrog]

"Sorry, but that's not real burnout. If you're unable to recover at all then you've experienced real burnout."

I hope you see where this eventually leads, because it's a common pattern when discussing mental health topics. There is a single instance of the "true" thing and no one else feels justified in taking care of themselves because someone else has it worse. I'm sorry that you had burnout, but there are better ontologies of burnout than drawing the line around your experience as "real".

[johnfn]

I mean, if one guy is talking about a broken leg, and a second comes by and says "ah yeah, I scraped my knee once too, I had to use a band-aid in order to solve it," I think it's entirely valid to say that those are not comparable experiences. I feel that you are arguing they are different degrees of the same thing. That may be true, but it's true in such a thin sense that it doesn't really contribute to a conversation.

[kelseyfrog]

That's a great example that I agree with. Also consider the "You haven't had a real fracture unless there's bone sticking out of your skin." to the person who has a hairline.

What I'm saying is that it's especially easy to get caught up in this mindset when discussing mental health topics. The existence of "real" burnout artificially introduces the concept of "fake" burnout.

Let's be clear, the concept of burnout and worn out is more compassionate, descriptive, and most importantly has the important consequence that I'm interested in avoiding: not turning into a who has it worse spiral that ultimately ends in people with burnout not being able to identify it because someone else has it worse.

It's this class of false negative that I believe is important to have a conversation about. These people often go unnoticed, because despite having burnout will not identify it as such because someone has it worse.

I get that you're interested in the false positive case, and that's fair. I understand that if too many people misidentify worn out as burnout that it can make burnt out people feel like people aren't able to understand their circumstances as severe, but I trust you'll consider both types of error as important and deserving the attention they do.

[Eddy_Viscosity2]

Another way of saying this is that burnout exists on a spectrum and that catching it early when you're on the worn-out side is way better then waiting till its gets to the full burn out side.

[darkerside]

Well, in this case, the article author is talking about a sprained ankle, and top level poster is dismissing his experience because he broke his ankle once.

[blue039]

The article author is saying "I sprained my ankle and it was extremely painful to the point I could not do anything". You can ice an ankle (take a little time off) and have it fixed.

The parent is saying "I broke my ankle - fractured in several places I was crippled and needed surgery you did not experience a broken ankle". You cannot fix this problem by icing it. You need a systemic reduction in everything.

The author is conflating a sprained ankle with a broken one. The parent is saying that is not true. A lot of people who have sprained their ankles have come into this topic to tell everyone "WELL ACKTHUALLY" in the most obnoxiously stereotypical HN way possible thereby diluting the actual meaning of the parent's statement. There are far too many HNers who have a permanent craniorectal issue.

[darkerside]

Most disagreements really just boil down to what is the most important thing to be talking about. And I tend to side with the person who started the conversation because they had something to say.

> If you can be restored from simply doing a different task, then its not real burnout.

You're not wrong, it's just that you seem not to realize this statement was a "well actually", probably because you happen to agree with it.

[jemmyw]

I fractured my wrist last year and the doctor was debating if it was possibly a fracture that needed a an x-ray or a sprain. I said it wasn't that painful and he replied that a sprain can be more painful than a break so that's not really a good metric. Hopefully that dilutes things a little more for you.

[klyrs]

Technically speaking, a sprain can be worse than a break. Bones heal. Tendons don't.

[arrosenberg]

Nah, GP is right. There is feeling burned out on something specific and being well and truly burned out. The former can be shrugged off with tricks, the latter feels like being dead inside until you rest for long enough to reset.

[katscradle_1989]

honestly seems like it would work on a spectrum. I've been burned out. Not as bad as GP but where I've had to take a week off to find stability again. Everything except the timescales seem to line up.

I do get what GP is trying to say though. I just believe its all the same and "small burnout" can be fixed with small tricks.

[devinprater]

Is... Is that really what I have to do? But I have a job.

[justinator]

Yeah it's what you have to do. You were abused (by yourself) and you're going to have to admit that it's a problem, make very real steps to recover from it, and make sure that it never, ever happens again as you're now 1000x more susceptible to the ill effects that come from that sort of abuse.

[arrosenberg]

Pretty much! Save up, take 6-12 months off, you will feel way better.

[John23832]

"True Scottsman" with mental health is really annoying.

[aliqot]

Aren't you doing the same thing right now? They're gatekeeping burnout, and you're gatekeeping the definition of it.

[kelseyfrog]

Sorry, but I'm only willing to continue this conversation with a true Scotsmen.

[2-718-281-828]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

touché

[atoav]

No they are not. They are stating the fact that a given psychological definition (e.g. burnout) can include multiple different manifestations.

[blue039]

You are being needlessly sensitive to the parent post.

The parent is making a distinct difference between what the industry typically refers to as "burnout" and what actual, physical, burnout is. As someone who has gone through phases of burnout and currently working through yet another one in my career I can attest the parent's definition IS the correct one.

You are not burned out when you are bored at work. You are burned out when you are so tired of doing something that you cannot bring yourself to not only do it, but anything else. When you need drugs to get through the day. It's a combination of depression/anxiety/fear of failure that manifests as what I can only describe as a feeling of wanting to disconnect from everything forever and sleep. The only solution is to disconnect for a long time. I, for example, have not programmed as a hobby in almost half a decade. It's the only way I can stave off repeated bouts of severe life crippling burnout.

Be far less sensitive. Also, perhaps you should try to experience burnout before a needlessly pedantic out-of-nowhere virtue signal.

[kdmccormick]

> actual, physical burnout

As with all mental health issues, there is no clear line between "fake" and "actual, physical". It's a spectrum. Even small amounts of stress and boredom create physical responses.

I have Bipolar disorder and I will happily admit that anyone can suffer depression & mania symptoms, and that the difference between what they suffer and I suffer is one of magnitude and not one of categorical difference.

The article author sounded a little bit burned out. You were/are severely burned out. Is there something wrong with saying it like that?

Unrelated, read both of these statements and tell me you don't see irony:

> Be far less sensitive.

> Also, perhaps you should try to experience burnout before a needlessly pedantic out-of-nowhere virtue signal