[LinuxBender]

According to reports, a new EV on average costs $66,000, however, a conversion from ICE to electric power can be done for a relatively low amount of $14,000.

14k does not sound right for my vehicle. The battery pack for the Ford Lightning is $35+k and I would need a bigger one. It would surely be a lot more for my truck and that isn't counting the controllers, motors, coolant lines and heating system for the battery pack, new wiring and input controls and of course all the labor to do this. If I am going this far I may as well replace the frame to start rust-free and maybe even put extra corrosion mitigation on it. There is a lot of salt on my roads.

I think this would be a fun project for a vehicle hobbyist but I can't even fathom doing this for $14k and a $2k rebate is not much of an incentive in my opinion. If I had my own shop I could see starting a project like this but it would surely cost at least 8x what they are suggesting and that does not even factor in warranties.

[Edit] I forgot the most important issue. Supply chains. The way things are going globally all of these parts would have to be made and supported in the US, Mexico or Canada to have a reliable future for US residents. I think I personally would wait until the US or Mexico are mass producing 3D printed solid state batteries which should be relatively soon.

[nimbius]

Im a master diesel engine mechanic by trade and I can say with all certitude $2000 doesnt begin to cover parts labor and disposal.

the engine in a car, even a 20 year old car, is a touchstone of the vehicle. Things like air conditioning, heat, and windshield wipers often only run on vacuum from the engine. traction control, antilock brakes and AWD all rely on engine speed sensors from either the crankpin position or transmission data and have to be considered as well. ECU states in turn send measured return data to things like ECC components (radio, etc..) and even the anti-theft system. Engine data is even a component of the SRS (airbag) system in a lot of cars.

I would bill ten or fifteen hours of labor to safely drop the transmission and change an engine. then i would bill you for fluid disposal and parts disposal and we're assuming you have a drop-in replacement kit for the ECU/OBD components youll need to power things like brake lights and turn signals because they wont work without some input on the engine status either. Id also have to have an installer certified for the high voltage stuff, typically billed higher than a normal mechanic because electric cars are still pretty exotic for aftermarket custom maintenance.

[drewg123]

A lot of the conversions that I've seen use smaller packs, like 60KWh or less. And most of them use used Tesla motors and packs. So perhaps this is where the price comes from ... the fact that the pack & motor are used. But $14k does seem quite low, considering the labor involved..

[ajross]

> I think this would be a fun project for a vehicle hobbyist but I can't even fathom doing this for $14k and a $2k rebate is not much of an incentive in my opinion.

The point to the rebate, FWIW, is to increase uptake at the margins. The assumption is that there is a population of users desiring the change for some external reason, and that a significant number of those are "on the edge" because of cost. So for comparably little public expenditure you can get an amplified signal. Think of the rebate spending as the base current in a transistor.

Given that you're already in a population (truck owners) who are heavily anticorrelated with the target population (people who want an EV), you aren't likely to be well served.

If the government wanted to get everyone to drive an EV from first principles, they'd just buy you a Rivian.

[mulmen]

I have never driven a work truck more than 100 miles in a day. I recognize that some people need to but if I can get 100 miles of range out of a Chevy Silverado with an EV drive train that could be very appealing to a small business. The EV premium just has to be less than the expected lifetime fuel costs.

[AtlasBarfed]

Sodium Ion chemistries will drop to $40/kwh at pack level, based on bill of materials.

So a 100 kwhr battery will be 4,000$, and that is likely overkill for almost all conversions.

I would imagine these would be "city car" 100-150 mile range conversions, so probably 40-50kwhr packs and 2,000$.

YEs that is OEM supply cost, so we'll see what happens.

I think they'll become huge in classic cars, because the EV motor is compact, and the batteries can be placed in flexible ways. Classic car owners can ditch inefficient motors that they have no parts for. It's not like classic car owners routinely drive 1000 miles, they just toot around on the weekends/

[freedomben]

I would wager that most of the people in support of this law didn't even think about your use case (a truck), and if they did, they probably just assumed that nobody with a truck actually needs one (something I hear regularly asserted all the time), and after you give them a use case they'll just say "well most people don't actually need them" as if that makes it ok now to utterly screwing that minority using the law.

By the time they're done with it, it won't just be the rebate (carrot of "carrot and stick") they'll use to motivate you. It will also be when gas $30+ per gallon (stick of "carrot and stick") as a result of other policies they'll develop when people aren't moving fast enough to get electified. Between artificial production limits/quotas/taxes/etc the EV cost to own and drive will be a lot more competitive and most people will do what they want just to stop the pain.

I think EVs are the natural future as tech improves (and I'm glad for it because we do have to get away from combustion for energy), but the amount of pain and suffering people are willing to inflict on others in order to accelerate the timeline really shocks me sometimes.

[mulmen]

Honestly trucks seem like an ideal candidate for EV conversion because they have so much space between the frame rails for batteries.

Probably not great for long range towing but seems fine for in-town commute and work. Like a construction or landscaping company. Bonus if you can get Ford Lightning type built-in inverters.

[LinuxBender]

Will Prowse recently did a video on the Lightning [1]. He is running into some problems in his area acquiring the free charging or any charging away from his home. He can of course charge it at his home since he has insane amounts of solar. This could be problematic for construction folks going to job sites that may have limited power as in just enough for the tools and not enough to charge several trucks. This should be interesting to watch how it plays out.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATyBdJic8-o

[mulmen]

Why would the trucks need to charge at the job site if they can charge at home? And why would solar be required to charge an EV? Any additional range on top of a there-and-back trip could be used to power the tools.

[LinuxBender]

Why would the trucks need to charge at the job site if they can charge at home?

That depends on how far away the job site is. In my state that could be a long drive. For jobs in or near city/urban areas it's probably fine. I have a very difficult time as it is getting any contractors to come to me. This article is specific to Cali, but Cali does things first then others follow if it works out. Even Cali has some seriously spread out towns once one leaves the big cities. Actually let me correct that, Cali is massive. I've driven all over it.

And why would solar be required to charge an EV?

It is not, I added that as Will is kindof the Master-of-all-things-solar(c) and power at home is of no concern to him, but the video I linked helps clarify what I was referring to. The video is about getting free power when not at home however he was unable to do that.

Any additional range on top of a there-and-back trip could be used to power the tools.

Agreed. With a safety margin added in of course which the lightning does have a configuration option for. That said I am leery of new tech getting the measurements right. I would set a large margin of error until I knew for certain I could get to X place and back without risking needing a tow-truck.

[mulmen]

> For jobs in or near city/urban areas it's probably fine.

I suspect most small commercial vehicles service this type of area. It takes a lot of service vehicles to keep a city functioning.

I have some friends who do residential window washing and other odd jobs like leaf blowing, Christmas light installation, power washing, and gutter cleaning. Even a long day for them is less than 50 miles of driving total.

When I worked on the farm the longest we ever drove in a day was 60 miles, occasionally with a trailer. But that was at low speed and only a few times a year. We could have used the grain trucks for that towing if the service truck didn't have the range.

Heck, I have seen a landscaper in my neighborhood that uses all electric tools and tows a trailer with his Tesla. You could eat his lunch with an EV swapped 2014 Silverado.

The one constant with all my work vehicle experience is that the owner is obsessed with fuel prices.

My boss on the farm would have loved the idea of electrical arbitrage. He was doing something similar with jerry cans and the three gas stations on the way to the shop.

Napkin math:

At 12k for an electric conversion, 50 miles a day, and $3.60 a gallon gas I figure a 8 year payoff for the driving we did on the farm. But we did a lot of summer driving. If gas prices went up to $5.00 a gallon the conversion could pay for itself in 5 years. For year-round work EV conversion pays off in 5 years at 12k conversion cost and $3.60 a gallon. At $5.00 a gallon it pays off in 4 years. If you drive 75 miles a day it could pay off in less than three years. At 100 miles a day and $4.00 a gallon payoff is in 2.5 years.

[thatfrenchguy]

It's never going to be any sort of economical to do this on a already existing truck, you'll get complete trash efficiency.

[tiagod]

Yep. No way it's going to cost 14k, even where I live (Portugal) where labour costs are significantly lower than the US, you'll pay a few k for a "simple" engine swap.