[A4ET8a8uTh0]

This, I think, seems to be the important thing that seems glossed over in news articles. At certain income, the economy is doing great. But that is within the group that, historically, has always done well. When you have enough money, a lot of pain can be made largely removed.

Now, it is only anecdata. I am in IL. My household is above average in terms of income for US and my state. We are struggling ( not as much as so many other Americans, but I can't say I am comfortable say.. buying a new car or remodeling kitchen or even taking a vacation ) and it is not like we are throwing money at random indulgences and we did not even start school for our kid yet. By all metrics I should be in a comfortable enough position ( and I guess I am by comparison ), but to me outlook is choppy. And it is not just the boom/bust cycle. I am talking real systemic issues that will take both massive tax hikes and services reductions, but that would not be a popular message to take so no one talks about it.

I remember working sub $20k job. I remember being bumped to $30k ( ~US median? ) and I can't even begin to imagine anyone having to live on that today.

In short, I agree.

[alldayeveryday]

To your point about services reduction, I don't agree. I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure. We should increase or create new social programs that incentivize native births, home ownership, making it possible for most households to have just one person in the workforce, etc - and reduce the money that goes towards foreign wars, foreign agitation, welfare for nations across the world, etc. And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

<< And I agree, tax hikes but targeted at the financial system which makes money in parasitic ways. In short, the economy needs to be optimized to the benefit of the lower and middle classes, the working class, and no longer to the 1%. This all probably requires heavy nationalization of banking and major industry. I dont see this as an evil and mistrust those that tell me to fear putting the power back in the hands of the people and away from the elite.

I disagree. The only way to even begin thinking about selling it to the public, which happens to include moneyed interests is 'shared sacrifice' ( similar to how a war effort would be sold ). In pure mathematical terms, we really should be doing both already. We don't because things did not get bad enough yet, but once it starts, it will be a little hard to stop. Shock therapy is necessary to get things under control. And the longer we wait pretending it can be 'managed', the worse it will be later on.

<< I think more of a re-allocation of where capitol is going is the cure.

From where to where? I don't automatically disagree, but 'entitlements'(depending on how you define them ) are somewhat protected from touching and 'defense' is even harder. Re-allocation is not going to happen, because even current allocation was a result of heavy compromises.

I disagree based on the information provided so far. If you have math to back up either point, please share. Right now, we are still running US on continuing resolutions suggesting that balanced budget now is just not possible. Something is wrong and it needs to be corrected before it gets much worse.

[alldayeveryday]

> … is shared sacrifice similar to how a war effort is sold.

You actually posed a solution here not a disproof. Yes all this requires selling changes to the public and under a social message. One doesn’t need math to know this, it is intuitively true.

> from where to where

I already answered this.

> re-allocation is not going to happen because even the current allocation was a result of heavy compromise.

So anything that requires compromise cannot be undone? I’m not tracking your logic here.

I think you are looking for more evidence to backup my suggestion. See 1930s Germany as example where this model was followed and resulted in one of the greatest economic turnarounds of all time.

> inb4 muh nazis and Holocaust

Doesn’t disprove the economic turnaround that transpired.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

<< So anything that requires compromise cannot be undone? I’m not tracking your logic here.

I am convinced, just about anything can be done given enough effort, time and money. That said, how much of those would have to be expended to undo current compromise status quo? I personally would venture a lot more than most people would be willing to give in exchange.

<< See 1930s Germany as example[..]

Um.. yes, because US just happened to fund that recovery ( and of entire western Europe ) via Marshall Plan. Who, exactly will fund US recovery? I am not sure if you noticed, but central banks have been looking around for an alternative to USD[1] so further debt binge may not be an actual option soon.

This brings me to the original point. Drastic measures will eventually need to be taken. If those are taken now, they will be much less painful.

<< inb4 muh nazis and Holocaust Doesn’t disprove the economic turnaround that transpired.

I am not sure this adds much to the conversation. I will ignore it for unless you think it is relevant. If so, please elaborate.

[1]https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/22/countries-may-want-to-divers...

[alldayeveryday]

Eh, the US didn’t fund the German recovery. I think you seem to be confusing pre WW2 Germany (30s) and post war Germany (50s). The German state before national socialism was having hyper inflation, spiraling unemployment and a failing economy. The national socialists created one of the greatest economic recoveries of all time. It took the entire western world plus Russia to conquer it.

Post war Germany was hallowed out and the nation is a husk of what it once was, basically a US vassal state.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

Then, sadly, you are even more wrong than before when I gave you the benefit of the doubt. 30s Germany got their stuff under control for reasons that are kinda frowned upon these days ( actual fascism - as in convergence of state control and private sector, waging war and annexing parts of Europe for lebensraum, removing from society perceived outsiders, dissidents and other undesirables and so on ). I would like to think you are not suggesting those solutions implemented.

If you would like to rebut, please give me the 'good policies', 30s Germany implemented. I worry that may you have the 'national socialism' part confused at best.

<< Post war Germany was hallowed out and the nation is a husk of what it once was, basically a US vassal state.

Somewhat accurate. How would explain the Nordstream debacle then?

edit: I decided to pre-empt it a little. I am not interested in discussing whether fascism was left or right wing ideology. I had this argument before it gets ridiculous fast. I am going to bow out should it happen here.