[qbasic_forever]

Vaccines do not cause mutations, period.

Continued nonstop spread of the virus because the population refuses to take vaccines, refuses to take boosters, refuses to keep up effective NPIs like masking, etc... that can all lead to more mutations.

[Dalewyn]

>Vaccines do not cause mutations, period.

Let's not spread misinformation; this kind of rhetoric is precisely why I'm forever skeptical of this whole ordeal.

Any factor that causes a population bottleneck effect will inevitably cause "mutations" as you call it, more appropriately described as evolution or to cause survivors and their descendants to subsequently replace the prior population.

Factors that cause a population bottleneck effect include vaccination, among many other things; the most infamous example in medical contexts is perhaps antibiotics.

"Mutations", more appropriately evolution, is fundamental to life on Earth as we know it and is inevitable. New covid variants that are resistant to prior vaccines and immune responses are an evolutionary response to the population bottleneck effects imposed by vaccines and our immune systems.

Actual mutations will happen with or without vaccines; errors and accidents in the transcribing of DNA are inevitable. Most such transcribing errors are benign and inconsequential, but some lead to significant differences (eg: cancers, resistance to certain chemicals, etc.).

[nassimm]

In a strict sense, vaccine do not cause mutations. Vaccines will help strains that have mutated by removing competition, but that's very different from molnupiravir which actually induces mutations.

[mrguyorama]

You are playing a bunch of semantic games to try and say "I wasn't TECHNICALLY wrong, as long as you redefine all of my words" but you're just serving up word salad.

So no, vaccines DO NOT CAUSE mutations. Mutations are a natural consequence of replication. Vaccines CAN cause FEWER mutations, as they reduce how much the virus can replicate inside you before your immune system clears it, reducing how many chances at mutation the population of covid viruses have.

[TechBro8615]

The original comment that "vaccines do not cause mutations, period" was playing the same semantic game, by replying to a comment with a deliberate misinterpretation of its claims, which any reasonable reader would have understood to be referring to selection pressure from population bottlenecks, not the specific genomic process used by these drugs.

And actually, are the effects not basically the same? They both increase the likelihood of a new variant outcompeting existing variants, but in different ways - this drug increases the rate of mutations to new variants, whereas vaccination reduces the rate of mutations to existing variants. The effect in both cases is to favor new variants.

It's like how China banning Google and degrading service of US internet companies created an opportunity for domestic Chinese companies like Baidu to offer a lower-quality yet viable substitute to the firewalled service of its American counterpart, allowing them to grow their market-share to fund development toward feature parity with the original American apps.

[Dalewyn]

This conversation gets confusing because "mutation" as a term is being used inappropriately (it's why I add scare quotes). I alluded to this already in my comment.

Actual mutations, as in DNA transcribing errors, will occur regardless of vaccines. It's an inevitable part of DNA replication. Such mutations can lead to evolution when faced with certain environmental factors such as a population bottleneck effect.

Vaccines, by way or increasing immune system response, can cause a population bottleneck effect and encourage evolution. We're seeing it with covid variants resistant to prior vaccines and immune responses.

[Dalewyn]

by way of*

Noticed the typo too late to edit it. :V