[operatingthetan]

YC has a vested interest in keeping the HN moderation a certain way, it bring a certain quality to the discourse but it's different than the structure of any sub.

Dang has a direct relationship with the owners of the site and responsibility to them, that relationship doesn't exist in any way on reddit. The mods run amok.

Suggesting HN is effectively just another subreddit dismisses several important differences.

[tptacek]

No, I don't think that's how HN works at all. Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here.

People unfamiliar with the setup here tend to think about YC first when they think about its management, but they should think about Dan first. My understanding is that things are pretty hands-off; even the perks that YC companies get here are, I believe, pretty much things Dan decided to give them.

[operatingthetan]

>Dan can in fact run amok on HN. I don't believe there are significant pressures from YC on how Dan structures moderation here.

I'm sorry but this is absurd. If dang had a mental break and decided only cat picture posts were allowed going forward, there would definitely be a conversation. It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists.

[tptacek]

The trust between YC and Dan regarding HN is probably the whole story about moderation here. Again: people think YC exerts a bunch of influence in how HN is moderated, and I doubt it exerts much influence at all. Dan is running this place the way he'd run it if YC didn't exist.

[operatingthetan]

I'm not sure why you're belaboring the point because whether it's trust or a contractual agreement to run the site a certain way the result is the same. Either way works for my argument which was that the relationship is the difference from reddit's way. I don't care how the relationship is mediated.

[tptacek]

About the most interesting thing you can say about YC's "vested interest" is that they have a vested interest in having HN continue to be moderated at Dan's total discretion. That interest would change, obviously, if Dan was raptured. But discussing the possibility of Dan's rapturing is not interesting, curious, or productive: we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion.

[johnnyanmac]

>we're not talking about the failure modes of moderation when moderators are incapacitated, we're talking about moderatorial discretion.

I saw the conversation as one about the structure of moderation. Paying a mod that you meet with every week to sync up with is very different from someone making some small sub themselves and enaccting any rules that don't break the sitewide rules. Likewise, a mod has no vested interest in the site nor its policies.

That mod-admin relationship is special on reddit, in a mostly bad way since admins ignore many mod issues. Dang is more like a moderator and an admin rolled into one.

[searealist]

Then explain why yummyfajitas was banned. Pressure from above.

[tptacek]

He was banned for trolling after being repeatedly warned to stop. I have no idea why you thought that was "pressure from above". But there are people who think any ban on HN is an insidious plot by YC, so it's not worth arguing.

[searealist]

yummyfajitas was 95 percentile for sincerity on this site. Calling him a troll is just easy.

[MockObject]

I'd never heard of him, so I looked up his history. His banning causes me to reconsider participation in this forum at all. And it's sad to see the quality of those 2017 threads compared to today. So thoughtful, so many citations.

[mistermann]

> It being hands-off so far means that YC and dang have current consensus and trust exists.

But this is the very point of contention, and is not actually known.

[lmm]

The fact of being an HN employee means that Dan has a sword of Damocles above his head the whole time. Whether or not YC are actually calling him up day-to-day and telling him to do X or Y is irrelevant; he's smart enough to figure out what X and Y are and do them pre-emptively, and he knows his livelihood depends on it.

[operatingthetan]

Exactly, I'm so confused why people are speculating that dang is the only employee in the world not subject to a performance review. If someone is paying you, they have a stake in your work.

[tptacek]

No it doesn't. In fact, if I had to guess, the power dynamic probably goes the other way.