[schlomie]

I'm always startled when I see speculation or surprise that animals exhibit "human" behavior as though they're not just animated vegetables; for fuck sake, yes, they're sentient beings and experience all the same things we do(!). They're just pretty stupid. ;-)

[eurleif]

Out of curiosity, believing that, are you a vegan or vegetarian? If not, how do you justify killing something that can experience being killed?

[jpulgarin]

I believe animals can "experience being killed" and justify my eating of them mostly by the fact that eating them increases my productivity which helps me work more optimally towards reducing the suffering of other sentient beings. Also, I am somewhat selfish.

[ajuc]

Is that even disputed, that animals can "experience being killed"? I don't doubt there are sentient animals, other than humans. For example dogs, crows, dolphins, elephants, probably tons of other. Once animal can predict future and react to it, he can't help but be sentient - otherwise how could he know what part of the future he can change, and what part is the einvironment.

Killing them to eat is IMHO justified by the same reason tiger has the right to kill his prey. We're predators (ok, omnivores, but still - we eat meat).

[eurleif]

It's not 'we eat meat'. We can eat meat, but we can also choose not to. It's not God's will that we eat meat, or something.

[ajuc]

Well, some bears are also omnivores, yet often they prefer meat to plants, and no vegan seems to have problems with that.

Besides - healthy diet including meat is easy and delicious. Healthy diet without meat is not trivial, and not so delicious (at least for me).

[eurleif]

What's not trivial about it?

[ajuc]

Having to remember to eat certain plants to prevent anemia and other problems.

[martinkallstrom]

Animals can not only experience being killed, there are documented cases where intelligent animals like orcas and dolphins have made and carried out a decision to commit suicide.

Humans in general even justify the killing of humans in special situations, who obviously are capable of experiencing being killed. It's eating the remains that's repulsive in the case of more intelligent species like humans, dolphins or dogs, isn't it?

[eurleif]

I'm ok with killing humans as part of a justified war, but I wouldn't be ok with death camps (or slaughter houses) for humans who had done nothing wrong, regardless of whether they were being eaten.

[inoop]

> more intelligent species like humans, dolphins or dogs

or pigs

[michaelcampbell]

"Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise." -- Eric Cartman