[pembrook]

The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy.

Being a steward of an already-giant company...one that has product-market fit, reliable sales/distribution channels, household brand awareness, and a position of gravity in the markets...is infinitely easier than building something from scratch.

Nobody who was employee #1567 should ever be granted $10M+ of equity in a business they didn't build.

It's quite literally stealing from public investors, and boards only enable this because they're incestuously composed of fellow managerial-club members.

[robocat]

> The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy.

From the public’s point-of-view, the “software class” are looting the public: outsized compensation for a risk of say 2% (20% fired over ten years).

Nobody who was employee #13370 should ever be granted $100k+ of equity in a business they didn't build.

I’m being sarcastic: but so many arguments against the “managerial class” can equally be made against the wealthy privileged software engineers earning $X00k (including stock options/RSUs etcetera).

[pembrook]

The pay of a rank-and-file engineer is commoditized with pay-bands and kept in check by market forces (we're talking millions of people -- hard to prop up inefficient pay at that scale). Certainly there might some geographic inefficiencies but those are slowly being arbitraged away (there's zero reason a European developer should be making 1/4th of what an American developer would).

On the other hand, the talent market for Director at Public Company is much less efficient and opaque. You're talking about a club of a few thousand people globally who restrict entry via irrational signaling values like "was on the rowing team at Harvard" or "created PowerPoints for a year at McKinsey."

I'm certain we could 5X the amount of people we let into the "public company management" talent pool with near zero effect on outcomes at a macro level--while having the benefit of saving investors money on comp.

You can't 5X the amount of people you let into the engineering talent pool without making things much worse. That market is much more efficient.

[robocat]

FANG employee developers can earn more than directors, and as you go up the pay scale, more of a software developers pay is equity compensation.

Directors of the S&P500 earn median $300k per directorship including equity compensation: “The combination of cash and equity changes has pushed pay levels to a new milestone in the history of GECAT’s annual study, and median total direct compensation (TDC) now rests at $300,000” https://www.wtwco.com/en-US/Insights/2022/12/2022-director-c...

And your point is kind of irrelevant to what I was saying. I am arguing relatively, many software engineers at FANG earn what most people would call “obscene salaries”.

If you want to argue executives or directors are overpaid, you also need to consider why (a) highly paid software developers are not overpaid, and (b) why your solution shouldn’t be applied to everybody in the USA as a whole (given the USA is extracting money from poor people and poor countries worldwide).

Edit: actually, on rereading your 5X argument, I realise I just won’t try to understand your point. I need more objective numbers to work with when trying to understand an argument. I won’t be adding to this thread.

[Ekaros]

Non-sarcastically I actually agree. The whole equity compensation seems like cheating other taxpayers.

[joxel]

The difference is the software engineers are creating wealth with that paycheck. Managers are extracting it.

[gwright]

> The managerial class looting public companies for outsized compensation while taking near-zero risk, is a huge problem in the modern economy.

Has it ever not been a problem? In any type of economy? In any type of company? Seems like this a human nature problem and not a "modern economy" problem.

[overrun11]

I think it is a fairly new thing yes. I could be wrong but the distinction between owner and manager seems like a fairly recent development. The people in charge have always reaped the bulk of the profits but also bore most of the risk. Now we have "managers" who take no more risk than an employee but receive excess rewards.