[andreadallera]

I hate to write this, since the tragic happening but really, the hype is widely unjustified.

I started programming when I was 8, I know a lot of people that started meddling around with computer around the same age, and I was born a decade before her which, in computer years, is like a century. Everything programming related was a hundred times more difficult to accomplish than it is now - I wrote assembly on a C64, because that's all my poor family could afford, with nothing more than a printsheet of the opcodes. And no internet, keep that in mind. And I won't say I'm a prodigy because of that.

I am also an MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional) and I can tell you that the exam was nothing but difficult - basically, it had nothing to do with actual programming and more with knowing what checkbox to flag. I studied for it the evening before the test.

I've seen so many stories like this, most of them not as tragic and not as heartwarming. For example, a heir of a very wealth family that I know has been featured in at least 10 Italian newspapers as "the new Mark Zuckerberg" or "the 20 years-old startupper" or "the genius behind <his startup>", all because his family has deep ties with the editors.

That has taught me never to believe a thing of what I read on something even vaguely institutionalized.

[reason]

Jesus, every damn time someone of note passes away we get a bunch of morons on here telling us how the accomplishments aren't as good as they seem. You people need to learn when to bite your tongues. I'm willing to bet if it were some VC going on and on about his/her life's works, the last thing you'd do is point out how unremarkable and unimpressive any of it is.

Let's see if a similar article is written up about your achievements when you pass away.

Thanks for the insight, though!

[andreadallera]

> we get a bunch of morons on here telling us how the accomplishments aren't as good as they seem.

Whoa, easy. I have expressed my opinion and I have backed it up well I think. No hate for the poor girl, that's just terrible that somebody 16 years old have to die, no matter his or her accomplishments.

On the other hand, what accomplishments are we talking about here? Seriously, I'm really sorry for the poor girl, I really am, but still I can't see the accomplishment she's made.

And, honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about what people will write about me when I'm dead.

[reason]

Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

I don't get this angry when commenting here but the disgusting lack of empathy continually expressed on HN really, really gets to me. If you truly felt sorry for the girl, for her family, considered her family's pride for what she accomplished not only for herself but possibly for other kids in Pakistan, then you wouldn't feel the need to point out any of what you've stated.

I read the article and found it quite inspirational that a girl her age had so much motivation. Most kids at the age of 9 are playing their Wii's and watching early-morning reruns of Power Rangers. Her achievements go beyond technical certification.

But it's alright. Let's be champions of truth and justice at the sacrifice of appreciation and empathy. It'd be the hacker thing to do, anyway. It's happened with Dropbox, AirBnB, Steve Jobs, etc, already; so one more added to the list is a drop in the bucket.

[shawnz]

The nice thing about textual discussion is that you can have multiple opinions being analyzed at once. Just because not every single person is mourning in every message they write, doesn't mean nobody cares about the obvious tragedy. But there's no fun in analyzing the obvious. This girl is an absolute inspriation, and andreadallera helped remind me that it's not too late to hope for similar status for myself one day.

[andreadallera]

Your reply makes me sad. I'll try to explain why:

Empathy should have nothing to do with your ability to evaluate facts. Empathy has an evil cousin, politically correctness. When politically correctness comes into play, you lose the game. You can't talk about anything with a straight perspective because, you know, somebody might get offended.

A 16 years old kid has died. That is a sad fact by itself. If she was the dumbest kid in Pakistan that wouldn't have made the fact less sad - only, you wouldn't have known it. If she was the poorest kid in Pakistan, same thing. Now, you know that a lot of 16 years old kids die in Pakistan? Most of them with family situations much worse than the one she was in? Do you feel empathy for them? I bet so. That's a good thing, a human thing to feel.

Now, as a thought experiment, let's say she wasn't a Pakistani little girl. Let's say she was a 16 years old boy coming from a rich US family. Even fat and greasy, to add to the image. Let's also add that this one didn't die - he's well off in his NY mansion eating Snickers all day. What would you have thought of the article? "16 years old kid from NY loves messing around with .NET". Wouldn't you have said: who cares? And rightly so?

Empathy drains perspective. Feeling empathy is the noblest thing in the world. At the same time, it doesn't mean that it should suspend your ability to evaluate situations. A big problem with our society and our communication channels is that they routinely employ this effect to steer public opinion where they want it to be. Don't be a sucker - be human, but use your brain.

[hythloday]

The reason why it's remarkable (and I use the word literally) is because 16-year-old girls from Pakistan do not start with the same advantages as 16-year-old boys in the US. It's not surprising, given that, if one outcome is ignored and the other is celebrated.

[andreadallera]

Again, perspective. On average, that's certainly true. In this specific instance, not so. Take a 16 year old boy from the ghetto in the US and compare it to a rich upper caste Pakistani girl. Who has the most advantages?

[lookelsewhere]

You could have at least stated that you felt sorry for the girl's death in your first post. Instead, it sounded more like you were focused on discrediting her skills without heed to the sensitivity of her passing. She might not've been a true prodigy, and you may be fed up with articles like this, but please show some dignity.

[joemoon]

> Empathy should have nothing to do with your ability to evaluate facts.

Frankly, your original post was extremely light on facts. The only relevant fact that you presented is that you think the MCP exam is easy. You wrote:

> the hype is widely unjustified

You really don't have enough information. You're looking at a single fact without context, and saying that it's nothing special. For some context, check out khalidmbajwa's comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3467046

[vl]

Spot-on. This entire thread is a good example of people stopping thinking rationally and trying to censor people who disagree with them just because once they got into irrational empathic state they think they have higher moral ground.

Feeling empathy and being sad for whatever reason is ok, but trying to project to other and decline them the right to ask the question or to make a statement in a respectful manner is not.

[Dn_Ab]

I strongly disagree with you but was planning on staying out of this conversation. But now I feel compelled to interject.

Your example fails in supporting your point. Your example person could not be more different from Arfa.

Your character: Fat Boy who enjoys messing with .NET is alive and enjoying his snickers bar.

Arfa: Young Intelligent, Motivated Girl Concretely acting in fulfilling her goals and bettering her environment dies at 16.

It does not matter her gender, age or privilege. Her outlook, her willingness to act in perusing her goals and enrichment - in spite of her "silver spoon" - puts her ahead of a lot of people. Do not underestimate the power of taking things for granted.

We agree that her early death is tragic. But is it fair that so many other people also die and no one notices? No it is not fair. I agree. But the reality of the matter is that attention is a scarce resource and will always be. Now, If I had somehow heard about the death of your rich fat kid from NYC then I would certainly feel empathy for the parents and the early loss. But the reality is, a random person hearing of that event is not a likely scenario. Most news outlets would not be interested.

Many people, some more technically accomplished than Arfa will not get similar coverage. But technical accomplishment is not the sole determinant of value as a person or worth in attention units. If you look at how we price people's worth in attention you will notice that it is only loosely correlated with the value of the labor they put into improving themselves and more correlated with how much demand for their attention they can create.

As for Arfa's case she actually does stands up to scrutiny of the worth of her accomplishments. The real loss is not her current skill but the time derivative of it, the rate of increase, her potential. The fact that she had already made news, met Bill Gates, lack of greed, willingness to give back and the inspirational aspect of it all. Those add to make hers a very uncommon situation and hence worth covering by the media.

Her dying is a very sad event as is the case for nearly all deaths. But make no mistake, this coverage is not due to the empathy of the news outlets but a calculated cost value decision. Fair or not that is the reality of it and there is no gain in focusing on how many others are not covered instead giving more weight to the tragic fact of her loss. She has gotten to your ellipsoid of attention. That alone justifies the attention she is receiving, not an accounting of how easy it is to replicate her accomplishments. Such a stance is not much difference from holding a belief that I could make stackoverflow in a week.

Finally I completely disagree that empathy drains perspective. Empathy gives perspective. You underestimate the value of social and emotional intelligence, which are vital in getting people to work together and overcome difficulties. Empathy is exactly trying to get someone's perspective and then using that to your mutual advantages (or manipulate to get ahead). Intelligence in species is correlated with complexity of social groups. Some argue Neanderthals were more IQ intelligent than us - closer to our savants but we overcame them by being more able to work together and having a superior Collective Intelligence.

Empathy is not an enemy of rationality. See Higher order intentionality. I have a pet theory that the empathetic mind is a simulation based intelligence, dual to the calculation based intelligence commonly linked to I.Q. You can run simulations, or run outright calculations to get at the same answer. Some things are easier to calculate others easier to simulate. Both add perspective and neither has ordinality.

[ascendant]

You are a true engineer right to the end. Sticking your foot in your mouth and then continually trying to use logic to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself. The next time someone of note passes away, resist the urge to take them down a notch and just keep your mouth shut.

[andreadallera]

And you're a true manager right to the end, my friend. Making decision with your heart alone and refusing to see logic and data when they're in front of you.

May our paths never cross in real life.

[drx]

> limb out of the hole you dug for yourself

How delightfully patronizing.

[drx]

> You people need to learn when to bite your tongues.

While I appreciate your proselytizing suggestion that we change our entire moral and ethical framework based on what some random person on the internet wrote in anger and eschew logic and reason, I will bite my tongue whenever I please, thank you very much.

[hoodq19]

Really? A young girl dies, hacker or not. A writer who was touched by her writes about it. And the only thing worth writing is that you beat her to programming by 2 years. Bravo!

Not that this applies to you, but at what age do people learn empathy and sensitivity?

[bane]

I think andreadallera just wants an msnbc digital life writeup as well.

andreadallera, here's the author's email address [e-mail], enjoy petitioning him for your own digital ink noting and praising your deep feelings of self worth -- those being more important than the death of a child.

[andreadallera]

No no no not at all - Sorry if it came out that way.

On a personal level, I am deeply sorry for her death. Given time, she might have become a great programmer.

On a more general level, when I see something like this on the news, I can't help but ask myself why exactly somebody has written an article about this particular person. In this case, it doesn't seem to me that she was the prodigy they're talking about. A smart kid with a will to improve herself? Certainly. But think about the context - she came from a very rich Pakistani family. What would you think, as a 16 year old boy from Pakistan, coming from a poor family and working your bones off to make a living, coding at night, of this story? Because, you know, it's very likely that there's somebody like the boy in question in Pakistan.

Scope mixing is the bane of modern communication. You can't use empathy as an excuse to talk about anything. This personal tragedy should have remained personal, not brought up on the news. Just my humble opinion.

[bmahmood]

My family is of Pakistani origin, and I have lived in Pakistan for several years. I think discounting her talent, simply because she's from a "very rich Pakistani family" is unfair.

Yes, elitist families have more opportunities than the rest, but counter-intuitively given the feudal elite culture of Pakistan, the rich are often devoid of ambition and simply join family businesses. Girls, especially, are raised with no other ambition than to get married.

I think for this girl to have such greater ambitions, despite the rampant chauvinistic expectations of her society, despite a country where everyone (including the rich) have 5-10 hrs of electricity/gas/water a day, despite living in a country in political upheaval, is pretty exemplary. And her talent, as such, is impressive in context.

[GigabyteCoin]

I believe I read "SAMS 24 Hours to HTML" at 8-9 years of age and produced my own "replica watches" website (because i figured they were profitable to sell, and I sure wanted one :P).

I remembered getting about 80 emails from potential customers, asking my parents for their credit cards/money in order to acquire some merchandise and a domain name, and them completely freaking out (because of all the "credit cards + internet = FRAUD!" adverts at the time).

So thankful the internet has progressed into what it is now.

[pooriaazimi]

   Worst defense is a bad defense. 

I'm sorry that she had to die (really, I was shocked when I read she had died), but dying at a young age does not make one prodigy. She was (I'm certain of that) an extremely bright and self-confident kid. But better leave it at that. Saying that she was the greatest programmer of all time or the greatest person that had ever walked this earth is just insulting her memory, and belittles her achievements (which is much greater than mine's when I was her age).

[grannyg00se]

It's supposed to be a positive inspirational story and it is supposed to attract readers. Perhaps there is some liberty being taken with the adjectives but as you are aware, there are many things to consider when it comes to putting a piece of news together. The hype is not necessarily created for the benefit of the subject.

[shingen]

What is wrong with you? What does her death have to do with you? That was one of the most disgusting, least human, comments I've ever seen written on HN.

[andreadallera]

What does her death has to do with you? What does her death has to do with all of us?

What disgusts me is the lack of tact and consideration of editors and maybe her parents - the first are ready to exploit the death of a 16 years old girl to make some uniques, the seconds (I really hope that's not the case) are ready to put their child on the cover for some advertising.

[rooshdi]

Have you considered that their motive may have been to inspire? Life is very frail, and this young girl's accomplishments in life may have a profound positive impact on other children for generations to come. How can you not honor that?