[neetle]

> I know lots of people with the same attitudes I have - all have survived failure and went on to success.

Yes, however those attitudes aren't derived from the ether are they? They'd be informed by circumstance and background. You can "choose" to take an attitude towards something much like a rock "chooses" to fall when dropped. If your prior beliefs and experiences would have led you down the same rationalisation for that choice every time, is it actually a choice?

> re: defensive driving Defensive driving covers both how to avoid bad situations and how to recover from them IIRC. The implication there being that defensive driving is risk mitigation, not elimination. You're still relying on factors outside of your control to keep yourself safe.

> You can change your thoughts and attitudes. They are under your control.

idk man, hormones are a bitch and genetics predisposing people to addiction and suicide say otherwise. You do the best you can, but looking at every situation and stating that everything is a consequence of choice is assuming that some people's faculties aren't compromised from the start. Things like CBT can help, but not everyone is self aware enough to understand that cognitive distortions exist let alone treat them.

> People aren't doing the best they can if they believe their lives are victims of chance rather than consequences of their choices.

I'm sure you would find dozens of people per successful person with the same mindset as you described, purely due to a knowledge or talent gap. They'd see the same choice, make the wrong one where we'd make the right one and then suffer for it. Feedback loop, little control.

> I bet if I knew the details of your life, I could point out the choices you made that decided things for you.

So could I, but only because I made the bad choices based on the available information and influences in the first place. It's a feedback loop.

I mean, I eat dinner every night now so it's not like I'm not successful.

[WalterBright]

> however those attitudes aren't derived from the ether are they?

People choose their attitudes. I changed several of mine that were unhelpful.

> hormones are a bitch and genetics predisposing people to addiction and suicide say otherwise

I never said making choices was easy.

> I made the bad choices based on the available information and influences in the first place

It's always someone else's fault? The Marines have no tolerance for excuses. One takes responsibility. I'm not a Marine, but I admire them. I've had the privilege of working with some, and enjoyed their "no excuses" attitude and behavior. I'm not surprised the Marines are winners.

> it's not like I'm not successful

You also get to choose what success means for you.

[neetle]

> People choose their attitudes. I changed several of mine that were unhelpful.

The literal idea that people can change is one you have to learn on either reflection or outside influence. You do realise that, right? If that idea isn't in your vocabulary, it just isn't an option.

>> hormones are a bitch and genetics predisposing people to addiction and suicide say otherwise

> I never said making choices was easy.

When in that position, the most "logical" choice is usually a hit or a noose. It feels like you ignored the point about reasoning capacity being compromised in the first place due to whatever reason. Alternatively - I met a street preacher who was convinced god wanted him to do things he didn't want to (homelessness, etc..). Did he meaningfully have a choice, or does this fall under the "no excuses" doctrine too?

>> I made the bad choices based on the available information and influences in the first place

> It's always someone else's fault?

I'm not asserting fault here. I'm just talking about state diagrams.

Are you implying that people can make choices without knowing they exist? You only learn about possibilities and consequences from either external influence or experience. The mere idea of "no excuses" expects people to grow from their _previous experience_. You know, taking feedback from previous experience and having it inform future ones. Coming to reasonable conclusions based on that experience. It's a feedback loop.

> You also get to choose what success means for you.

I mean, besides my issue with the whole choose thing yeah, expectations for success moderate what you consider successful.

[WalterBright]

> Are you implying that people can make choices without knowing they exist?

Yes.

> You only learn about possibilities and consequences from either external influence or experience.

You can choose to do research.