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by gambiting 1234 days ago
>> EU/NATO expansionism & Russia pushing back

I'm sorry, what? How can anyone write such absolute nonsense?

Russia attacked Ukraine. Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO, it was explicitly stated and agreed upon years ago. Finland and Norway weren't going to join NATO, because they had zero interest in doing so. But Russia attacked Ukraine, so they applied into NATO, it's a direct consequence of Russia's actions. That's not Russia "pushing back".
2 comments
dmurray 1234 days ago
> Norway weren't going to join NATO, because they had zero interest in doing so.

I'm sorry, what? How can anyone write such absolute nonsense?

Norway has been in NATO literally from day one in 1949. NATO membership is the main plank of its defence policy.

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gambiting 1234 days ago
>>How can anyone write such absolute nonsense?

Well because clearly I'm an idiot and was meant to write Sweden and Finland not Sweden and Norway.

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zx85wes 1234 days ago
Nonsense? Ukraine applied for NATO membership in 2008. NATO didn't turn them down. It was pretty evident back then that this was going to lead to a conflict. Do I understand why Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO? Yes, of course! Money&security! This war was obviously a huge mistake. He's turned Ukrainians who were sympathetic towards Russia against him because they too don't want war on their doorstep.
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nforgerit 1234 days ago
Ukraine is a sovereign state and can apply and join whichever club it wants to join. More ex-Soviet states joining NATO was based on political decisions of sovereign states and not "the puppetmaster USA pushing to the east", which is Kreml propaganda.

IIRC in the 90s/00s they were talking about Russia joining NATO, too. After 9/11 Putin offered their well-meant help. NATO and Russia were meeting regularly in the past three decades and guess what, Russia left this meeting. Plus, NATO was always very careful arming NATO states near Russia in order to not provoke them. You cannot put this on NATO's card.

Edit: Even after annexation of Crimea, the EU (esp. Germany) tried to calm down Putin by negotiating a piece treaty between Ukraine and Russia and buying even more (cheap) Russian gas.

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