[farmaway]

The President of the United States of America:

https://nypost.com/2022/10/24/biden-calls-curbs-on-treatment...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-transgender-youth-state...

I have family and friends in K-12 education. If you question LGBTQIAP+ or fail to affirm a kids' gender self-identification, you are out of a job. Wesley Yang has covered this topic extensively, and is a good one to follow on Twitter:

https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/i-needed-love-i-needed-sup...

https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/i-felt-like-she-was-settin...

https://wesleyyang.substack.com/p/the-dangerous-overreach-of...

>I currently lean towards the "radical autonomy" end of the spectrum, in case you haven't picked up on that

I believe you. That approach endangers children, has no scientific basis, and will be stopped in the courts. Kids do not have the capacity to make permanent, life-altering decisions about fertility or sexuality. They do not and cannot understand the implications and consequences of their actions. Responsible adults must safeguard them into adulthood.

[PuppyTailWags]

Small question: In the name of preventing children from transitioning, there are laws in place in some states to investigate supportive parents for child abuse and separate children from their parents should their parents support their child's transition. How does this correspond with parental autonomy?

There are other laws in place in some states that force that a teacher is not allowed to mention gender identity at all in the classroom, and must report any gender nonconforming behavior to authorities. How does this correspond with teachers having control?

Edit to your additional edit: How do you match that there's no scientific basis for transitioning when the American Association of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association both oppose preventing access to transitioning?

[farmaway]

You're strawmanning Florida as an example of the status quo, when it's one of a very few states pushing back against the tide.

[PuppyTailWags]

You're dodging my questions.

[farmaway]

Your very comment dodged every major point of my original post, which you continue to evade. I won't be sidetracked into debating the actions of some Governor I don't control in a state I've never visited. It is classic "whatabouting," not relevant to the topic nor the main point.

[PuppyTailWags]

[Edited: I'm not contributing to this conversation since this is just culture war nonsense to someone who obviously opposes with no interest in mutual understanding, so I'm removing my post here and will cease conversing along this manner.]

[wizzwizz4]

> The President of the United States of America

Is not really a real person.¹ But if you think he's an example, he'll suffice for this. Please, state his position, and explain why you disagree with it.

> If you question LGBTQIAP+ or fail to affirm a kids' gender self-identification, you are out of a job.

I mean, yeah. That kind of power over children comes with a responsibility to keep your politics out of school – or, out of your position as authority figure, anyway. (A few, very few, teachers at my school managed the latter – and they only used this talent to rant a little about budget cuts to education, during times where we weren't obliged to listen.)

If a kid thinks she's a prophet of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, it is not for a teacher to tell her otherwise. If a kid thinks he fancies his best friend, it is not for a teacher to tell him that's wrong. If a kid says they're a fairy princess from Mars? To insist otherwise² is not the role or purpose of a schoolteacher.

> That approach

I didn't describe an approach, there: just a vague philosophy. I think you're reading too much into my words. What do you think the problems with my position are?

---

¹: At least, not while he's acting in his position as head of state. I elaborated on this in a sibling post: real-life people will tell you what they believe, but public figures (especially politicians) often tell you what they think will make you believe something. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34616318

²: A teacher could mention that no life, nor evidence of civilisation, has been found on Mars. Using this as a rebuttal of the child's claim to Martian fairy royalty would be overstepping.