[cloutchaser]

People seem to ignore the EU is in just as bad a state as the UK, especially now that Russian energy is over Germany as we know it is basically over.

Brexit might have had an impact but it’s one of 10 things badly wrong with europe as a whole.

[martimarkov]

But the thing is that the EU is not. Every major power in the EU is predicted to grow their economy and the UK is the only one that is not.

Even if you look at it as a purely engineering problem you'd see that adding more red tape on trade would be most detrimental to the smallest player. In the relationship with the EU, the UK is the smaller player.

[xyzzyz]

Predictions are not worth much. Everyone predicted UK’s economy will collapse after Brexit. While it certainly has not flourished, it is not any worse than before.

Now, what about the other “major powers” which are “predicted” to grow their economy? France’s GDP per capita has peaked in 2008, and never recovered since then. Italy? Same. Spain? Same. Belgium? Only recovered to 2008’s figure in 2021, same as Netherlands, Denmark, Finland. Sweden also only now recently recovered to its peak in 2011.

In fact, the only major EU economies that did not simply recover to their 2008-2011 peaks, but rather grown beyond them, are Germany, Poland and Czechia.

The truth of the matter is that EU economies are deeply stagnant, this is by no means a UK specific problem. There is no reason to predict growth in EU but not in UK.

[jvmfjvfjvf]

Germany contracted the last 2 quarters. Your explanation?

[mejutoco]

It seems that is not true.

https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/germany

Germany growth:

2022Q4: -0.2%

2022Q3: 0.5%

[fidgewidge]

"Even if you look at it as a purely engineering problem you'd see that adding more red tape on trade would be most detrimental to the smallest player"

This is economically illiterate, calling it an engineering problem doesn't change that.

Trade happens when both sides can benefit. If trade stops happening, both sides lose. Artificial trade barriers do not mean one side "wins", they are always and everywhere a way to penalize some local citizens in order to prioritize others, usually owners of businesses that are favoured by the state in some way.

At any rate it's an academic question. UK exports to the EU recovered to the prior level, it is selling the same quantity as before. Imports are lower, so UK buys less from the EU. Balance of trade therefore actually improved. This is not widely reported because the media is full of people who want everyone to believe Brexit has been an economic disaster. The reality is it'll never be possible to know because any impact is so small as to be invisible against the chaos caused by lockdowns.

[martimarkov]

1. Imports from EU are higher than pre-Brexit and higher than exports. So it's the deficit is also higher than before. 2. The EU does not have the UK as their biggest (40%+) market. Therefore the smaller player is the UK. If all trade stops - yes both sides lose. One collapses economically overnight. 3. The EU can either absorb the cost on its internal market (and sell goods internally for a smaller margin) or export to other players as there are existing trade agreements (again with a smaller margin). The UK does not have access to the same deals. 4. The EU market has a much higher GDP. Losing 1 trading partner even of the of Britain would not take down the Union.

[fidgewidge]

All you're saying is that the EU has a higher willingness for self-inflicting economic pain on its citizens, which is true, but not an argument for being inside it.