Were they too small 10 years ago? I went to a car show and compared our current “mid sized” SUV to its replacement. It grew 7 inches longer and several inches wider and taller. It’s bigger and smaller cousins did the same. So “mid sized” is now “full”, and “full” is now “extra large”.
Manufactures are also dropping their smallest cars, so effectively all cars are getting continually bigger and as a consumer it’s gradual you don’t realize it until the car doesn’t fit into the garage any more.
> Manufactures are also dropping their smallest cars, so effectively all cars are getting continually bigger and as a consumer it’s gradual you don’t realize it until the car doesn’t fit into the garage any more.
Surely this can't be correct?
There are more city car models (compact cars) available right now than 10 years ago. You might argue that their sales are lacklustre, but if a consumer wanted one, they are spoilt for choice.
I think the thing is, people who need a car need something slightly larger than a subcompact (2x baby seats + 1x pram don't normally fit in these tiny cars), while people who don't have kids don't need a car anyway - cheaper and easier to use the public transport.
You're aware that people had families before oversized SUVs were a thing...?
We used to go on long trips with a family of 5 in normal sized cars regularly. Of course I would never do that today. Like many families we don't have a car and rent as needed. Long trips with kids are just infinitely much better by train.
Not sure where you live, but here car seats or boosters are mandatory for children under 8. This is a relatively recent change. Car seats have grown more in size than the cars.
Used to be that putting unbelted kids in the back of a vehicle was fine. I grew up using such vehicles. The regulatory environment and equipment have changed significantly over the years. Can't really compare today with the past as trying to live that way will get you seriously fined if not arrested.
Here, too. Three kids in the back would be tight (edit* not possible), but it's completely absurd to claim that you can't fit boosters/car seats into compact cars. We have on occasion done just that in a small rental, or even in a friends three door tiny compact car. Talking about this style:
> We used to go on long trips with a family of 5 in normal sized cars regularly. Of course I would never do that today.
Of course you won't - the baby seats that are safe enough to pass regulations are too large to fit 2 of them into the back seat of that old normal sized car.
Long family trips in smaller cars were done without baby seats or booster seats.
What??? You're saying you can't fit two car seats in the back of a "normal" car? I have two of them in a Honda Jazz (aka Fit) at this very moment. A car classed as a "subcompact". Until recently, one of them was a bulky Axkid (though it has since been outgrown).
Family of 4 here with a Honda Jazz (aka Honda Fit in the US). Doing fine. Grew up in the states as a family of four and for most of my youth we had a Honda Accord - the early 90's ones that were smaller than a Civic is now IIRC.
Yes, including until recently an extended rear-facing Axkid Move* (that did, admittedly, make leg room for the front passenger less than ideal, though my wife is short). And we use Babyzen yoyos*, though we're getting past the pram stage of life.
Sometimes I bring a Brompton folding bicycle and a Thule Coaster trailer along with the kids when we want to go for a ride.
But for the record, when biking to work today I biked for some time behind a father on a cargo bike with two kids seated in the trunk. We zoomed past the traffic on the main road, that of course was at a stand still. :)
You can only just fit 2 child seats into a smaller car. For anyone with 3 children, anything without 2 rows of back seats is basically an unusable car for the whole family.
And the reason everyone is going on about "car size inflation" and how it was fine in smaller cars 20 years ago is the same reason - you didn't have to use child seats. Now because of safety you literally can't have a family larger than 2 children with a smaller car.
For what it's worth, I've had three kids in a Prius ages 2-6 (the oldest was tall enough to use a booster in the middle) and there are narrower full car seats. One fancy option is https://www.multimac.com/range, which even includes 4-across options.
Moving the goal post. Your previous comment was about how I don't have a family (for some reason) and you discussed explicitly "a family of 4". Now you're changing the number.
In a city. How about anyone living in the countyside? Do those people not exist? Where my parents live, there is are 3 buses per day. None around school time. How does a child get to school? Or should these families just move to the city?
Do families get to go anywhere for more than a few hours? How do you bring all their stuff along like clothes, toothbrush, etc. Every child needs a minimum of 1l of water all the time, and some snacks in case they get hungry. And toys. And change of clothes in case they spill the 1l of water on themselves in the winter.
What happens when both parents have 20kg+ bags and one of your children decides to run away, say into traffic?
Judging by the replies to my original comment, not many people on HN have children or have any idea what it involves.
Do families get to go anywhere for more than a few hours?
While I instinctively agree with you, I have lots of friends with children who seem to do perfectly fine with just electric cargo bikes and public transport. And these are people with good jobs that could afford a big SUV if they really wanted one. So while you or I don't seem to get it, a lot of other people seem have worked it out no problem.
If your child runs in to traffic that's the exact moment you want the cars on the road to be small, light, and have short and low hoods so the drivers will see your child and stop before hitting them!
If your child decides to behave like a deer it won't matter if the cars are transparent, they're getting hit.
Even the new Chevy trucks that everyone loves to hate don't have a child blind spot that's larger than their stopping distance at any double digit speed.
>The rest of the world can fit 4 people, a dog and their stuff in a normal sedan or station wagon.
The demographics who are doing most of the complaining about the proliferation of big vehicles generally wouldn't be caught dead doing this (let alone doing it regularly) because it's not acceptable for people of their means if you catch my drift.
They also tend to complain and complain and complain about people buying trucks and SUVs they "don't need" and then the nanosecond they see someone doing "truck stuff" with a station wagon or crossover they're hand wringing about safety and margin for error.
Basically this is a social norms problem and the groups complaining about it are the ones who created the mess.
I am trying really hard to figure out what demographic you're talking about. Can you elaborate?
This thread has plenty of parents (myself included) saying that small cars are fine for raising a family. I see people towing with wagons (rare, now, sadly) and wring no hands. What's not acceptable for someone of my means? I am genuinely confused.
Manufactures are also dropping their smallest cars, so effectively all cars are getting continually bigger and as a consumer it’s gradual you don’t realize it until the car doesn’t fit into the garage any more.