[natroniks]

I'm not sure if JNJ liked including that clause, but by embracing this commitment and having the courts approve it with specific limitations to the Consumer Brands business, they may be able to save themselves in the end - or about 85% of themselves. > https://www.geneonline.com/soon-to-be-jj-spinoff-kenvue-file... The upcoming spinoff of Kenvue will be very interesting to say the least. Will JNJ be willing/able to sacrifice their consumer brands business altogether to protect the pharma/devices segments? Even the full $61.5B represents just about 15% of JNJ's current mkt cap; the rest of it basically represents drugs and equipment. If Kenvue takes on the entire commitment to LTL funding, then the real distinction isn't, as many say, Goodco (JNJ) and Badco (LTL). It's Goodco (JNJ), shield (Kenvue), Badco (LTL) - maybe? For JNJ, losing Kenvue would be a momentous, eye-watering loss, but it wouldn't bring down the entire mothership. For a look at how endless legal battles in one corner of a conglomerate can bring down the whole bloody thing, cf. 3M over the last like 10 years; they, too, are attempting a spinoff. >https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-penalizes-3m-bars-it-... > https://investors.3m.com/news/news-details/2022/3M-Announces...

Frankly, I just hope this legal wrangling doesn't somehow lead to even worse supply shortages in basic treatment (Tylenol, Motrin, etc). This winter was the first time I can recall heairng about shortages in cold medicine.

[Kon-Peki]

That’s interesting. I hadn’t heard about Kenvue. Their SEC filing says that one of the risk factors for Kenvue is:

> Legal proceedings related to talc or talc-containing products, such as Johnson’s Baby Powder, sold outside the United States and Canada (pursuant to the Separation Agreement, Johnson & Johnson will retain talc-related liabilities for products sold in the United States and Canada), including personal injury claims alleging that talc causes cancer, and other risks and uncertainties related to our historic or current sale of talc or talc-containing products (talc-based Johnson’s Baby Powder will be discontinued globally in 2023).

I wonder if J&J was doing this with the assumption that they had succeeded with LTL! If this ruling isn’t reversed, you have J&J with the US & Canada talc liabilities and Kenvue with the RoW talc liabilities!

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1944048/000162828023...

[natroniks]

Great find, and fascinating given the talc cases I've seen are all US based. Maybe that's just a bias and more a reflection of the sources I read than fact. Going to the source you provided, I see they do undercut the obligation later on: > Johnson & Johnson will indemnify us for certain liabilities, including talc-related liabilities for products sold in the United States and Canada, but such indemnity may not be sufficient to protect us against the full amount of such liabilities or Johnson & Johnson may be unable to satisfy its indemnification obligations.

Also, JNJ is going to maintain voting control of Kenvue such that changes to these obligations might be in JNJ's control anyway...