[tapoxi]

They have a pretty poor safety record with regard to Autopilot/FSD, not to mention way too many controls are behind a tablet interface that you should not look at while driving. It also implies I'm endorsing Musk and I'd be embarrassed to drive it. I'd much rather take the pain of CCS with the hope that the infrastructure bill smooths things out or grants supercharger access to CCS vehicles.

[jackmott42]

All you have to do to avoid the FSD safety issues is spend $10,000 less dollars and not get it.

Also I wouldn't count on the CEOs of Hyundai/Ford being less gross than Elon, they just tweet less, which is good.

[bdcravens]

Phantom braking doesn't require FSD.

[darknavi]

Phantom braking doesn't require a Tesla.

https://www.motorsafety.org/us-government-investigates-1-7-m...

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/phantom-braking-expe...

https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/ok-lets-talk-phantom-braki...

[bdcravens]

In considering all of those cars (and others), considering the effect of phantom braking on the overall safety of the car would be important.

[natch]

Don’t use autopilot, problem solved.

And… in any case stay engaged while driving so that you can be ready to touch the accelerator gently if it happens, to counteract it.

The purpose of autopilot is not to allow you to disengage from the responsibility to monitor the road situation.

I’m not saying I love phantom braking though. It’s gotten much better except in some beta versions.

[waffletower]

I agree that phantom braking has "improved". The frequency of the occurrence has definitely decreased during my 2 years/18000 miles of driving my Model Y. But you have to drive with a consciousness that it can occur at any time, particularly when approaching curves or parked vehicles. Usually, an audio warning is given by the car instead -- which is a bit too frequent -- though I have not adjusted its configuration to a higher threshold.

[bdcravens]

I've used that feature on the Toyotas and the Kia I own. As another commenter pointed out, other brands have the same phantom braking issue, but for the cars I've owned, I've haven't experienced it.

[apelapan]

The cruise control on my Kia (MY18 Optima) phantom brakes in certain situations. Typically in curves on divided highways, when you are in the left-most lane. I think it gets confused and panicky by the divider fence.

Luckily there is no OTA or other updates happening to these systems, so I quickly learned to anticipate and never get surprised by it anymore.

Gave me a big scare the first time, though!

[jackmott42]

That is true, in my opinion the cruise control on Teslas is just not usable, and for some that is a deal breaker.

[waffletower]

Phantom braking is a real issue that I have directly experienced, autopilot is terrible, but I disagree that cruise control is unusable. I have found Tesla's cruise control (without steering), which includes car distance maintenance and braking, to be extremely reliable. It can be problematic at low speeds, but less so than traditional cruise control which does not have sensor informed braking.

[natch]

My understanding is that some of the top VW group (VW / Audi / Porsche) executives can’t even visit the US for fear of being criminally charged for the dieselgate shenanigans. So add them to your list.

[helf]

The safety crap with Teslas is one of my main gripes..

No haptic feedback /capacitive/ turn signals etc? wtf?

[jackmott42]

Turn signals use a stalk like any other car. Same for wipers, and much can be controlled with nice physical buttons on the steering wheel. Unless you have one of the new model S or X, in which case.. yikes

[waffletower]

the turn signal stalk is not standard like any other car in the 3/Y. It is annoying and takes time to get used to. It is difficult to quickly switch when signaling left to signaling right (and vice versa) unlike traditional stalks. Can't speak for the other Tesla models.

[helf]

ah, I had conflated the models then. That at least is good to know.

[calciphus]

Turn signals, windshield wipers, media controls, cruise control, follow distance...all have physical controls.

Lots of other weird stuff is touch screen only, like re-aiming the A/C vents or taking the headlights off of auto-mode, but the main stuff does.

[waffletower]

The stalk wiper control is awkward and has two modes, trigger wipers once, and trigger wipers once with fluid spray. Both modes trigger a modal on the touchscreen that allows speed control for the wipers in the late version of the software. It did not always do this. It was incredibly awkward to control the wipers when the left modal wasn't implemented. I live in a rainy climate and was very unsatisfied with the controls before the improvements.

[vel0city]

The yolk design doesn't have stalks. Turn signals, wipers, horn, and lights are capactive touch buttons on the yolk.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-...

[natch]

Can you explain what you mean by capacitive in this context?

[helf]

capacitive meaning a surface that registers your touch through capacitance change caused by your skin touching the surface. Like how basically all modern touchscreen works.

[natch]

Oh duh, haha thanks.

Not sure where they’re getting that from about the turn signals. They are very much physical in most current models. Except while FSD beta is activating them. I guess that’s why I completely missed their meaning.

[option]

Their safety record and ratings are actually one of the industry’s best. If you consider a car, please do your own research on this - check out actual ratings agencies reports, not news sites.

Regarding Musk - this is a weird argument. Are you endorsing oil industry then, if you are buying gas car? Or China if you are buying Polestar/Volvo ev? etc.

[JumpCrisscross]

> this is a weird argument

Cars are personal. There are also practical concerns.

I once rented a Maserati. It was a fun ride. But most memorable was how aggressive every other sports car (and, perplexingly, truck) became on the highways.

I borrow a friend’s Tesla in the Bay Area from time to time. I’ve recently had the Maserati experience in the Tesla. Abrupt cut-offs, refused merge and turn requests, jeers. For a day-to-day car, I couldn’t be bothered with this.

[bdcravens]

You're comparing supporting a person with supporting an entire industry or country, which isn't an apt comparison.

It's more akin to buying a MyPillow or shopping at Hobby Lobby, both of which have founders with ideologies that some may choose to not support.

[jackmott42]

The crash test results are good, that is distinct from overall safety though. Tesla's own marketing along these lines usually ignores important confounding factors. Like that their cars are relatively new and expensive compared to the average of all cars.

[dsfyu404ed]

>marketing along these lines usually ignores important confounding factors. Like that their cars are relatively new and expensive compared to the average of all cars.

To be fair, Volvo plays the same tune and HN is happy to take it at face value.

At the very least we should strive for consistency...

[waffletower]

I have been toying with the idea of putting a "Musk Sucks" magnet on my bumper. I could remove it whenever my Tesla needed service. The tablet is my Model Y's greatest weakness, though it could be greatly improved with saner user interface design.

[rstupek]

Which controls are behind a tablet interface that you'd need to use while driving? Have you driven a Tesla? The controls you'd need while driving (audio, climate) are on the steering wheel. You don't have to look at the tablet.

[rootusrootus]

Most commonly the wipers, unless you 1) live in a place with just the right type of rain (PNW is not this place), or 2) you're okay just using the button on the stalk to manually trigger the wipers.

Then there's music. God help you if you want to use Apple Music while driving. Just don't, you'll get someone killed. Pull over first and then you can spend the time necessary to navigate the UI. No, don't say 'use voice controls' because they really are terrible for this use case. Might as well just turn off the music.

Climate control is another fairly common one. Someone wants their seat warmer on. Find the button (at least it's always on screen in a predictable location), then navigate to the tab for the back seats, then click on the graphical picture of the car however many times it takes to get the heat level you want.

And that's just the 'while driving' list.

[qubitcoder]

On a positive note, the UX continues to improve, especially with the latest update.

I've only used Apple Music briefly since it just came out, but it seems similar to Spotify.

I love that the music controls are now in a dedicated mini-panel on the bottom left of the screen within immediate reach. This is far better than having to reach over to the center of the screen to skip forwards/backward (e.g. during a podcast).

You can also swipe on that same mini-panel to quickly see tire pressure and real-time energy metrics. This is an improvement over the original "swipe cards", which were clunky and undiscoverable.

For rear heated seats, that's a bit tricky from a UI standpoint. Not many vehicles have 3 heated seats in the rear, much less with 3 heating levels.

I imagine Tesla could add physical buttons for rear passengers to adjust the heated seats, e.g. next to the existing USB-C ports. I happened to come across this aftermarket upgrade [1].

At least the front heated seats are a single tap. Or they can be set to auto-mode, which works extremely well in my experience [2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYzXJJ5oaE

[2] https://youtu.be/esjtcjujV54

[waffletower]

I abhor that the new music modal interferes with other more vital modals on the left side of the screen. It should at the very least be configurable. Terrible and dangerous when they conflict.

[catketch]

In terms of things cars typically have on the wheel/stalk, on the Tesla stalk can only invoke rinse or a quick wiper clearing -- you can't turn wipers on/off, change wiper speeds or turn on/off auto wipers from the stalk.

fog lights cannot be activated from the stalk

Also you say that climate is on the steering wheel ---- Where is that? Unless you are talking about being able to invoke the speech command, which is a bit different

Other things like defroster activation is more of an issue of tablet vs physical buttons / controls