[fallowkevin]

>Defcon is basically run by a gang

No, Derby was run by a gang. (The 303 could probably be RICO'd)

I cannot confirm or deny that Defcon is where the event occured, especially since it was technically just an event at a casino, as many things occuring on the same days as Defcon occur.

>a gang that values loyalty and dedication above most things.. which has historically low standards of ethics for their goons and attendees

I actually was told by someone at my last Defcon they were boycotting CCC because they allowed Nazi imagery or something to that effect, which surprisede me given... you know... Germany.

I've never been to CCC.

I can tell you that Defcon is changing though. I volunteered with a village rather than as a goon since I don't want to kiss ass to war criminals.

(A lot of their security is ex Navy Seals. I will hold the goddamn door open when it comes time to batman people to the Hague, I don't like people who volunteered to do war crimes then walk around Las Vegas with a gun on their hip whining about weed.)

Anyways... I never felt welcome at Defcon, it was like being in high school at the pool table -- you can pay like anyone else to play, but... there's a line... for lack of a better analogy.

Maybe I should check out CCC but part of the appeal of Defcon was cost... for an American, it's pretty cheap for a hotel and airfare compared to going to Europe, a place I may never return to since standing up for folks in the Me Too era + standing against white nationalism has resulted in me being blacklisted from infosec.

[morcheeba]

CCC was a lot of fun. At the time there was a special package for people from the US for hostel+admission so that no one would be stuck with airfare and no ticket. Had a great time, ended up talking the night away at the hostel bar with the keynote speaker and didn't realize who it was. (not creepy, just fun hacker talk)

[fallowkevin]

it's not creepy to talk to someone about mutual interests, it's when you try to get them back to your bunk that things go off the rails

[darksim905]

>I don't want to kiss ass to war criminals.

Context?

>I never felt welcome at Defcon, it was like being in high school at the pool table

They are like any clique but taken to the extreme. To me what's interesting is seeing how people change over time as they get older. What is old is new again, until you get married and have kids. A lot of white knights in the community as well who hide dirty secrets and make big noise about other people to deflect attention from themselves.

I've had someone legit tell me they didn't want to associate with me implying that it was bad for business despite the fact they helped me personally financially. The message between the lines was that somehow, they thought I was going to cause issues with attendance in their classes or association. Meanwhile, they are probably the most prominent member of the community. Absolutely ridiculous grandstanding.

[fallowkevin]

>>I don't want to kiss ass to war criminals.

>Context?

Iraq was a war crime and CMU doesn't have any distinction between the FFRDC and the uni. And the security staff at Defcon, a lot are ex CIA or special forces.

>I've had someone legit tell me they didn't want to associate with me implying that it was bad for business despite the fact they helped me personally financially. The message between the lines was that somehow, they thought I was going to cause issues with attendance in their classes or association. Meanwhile, they are probably the most prominent member of the community. Absolutely ridiculous grandstanding.

No one from the so called hacker community has given me so much as a couch to crash on, I don't feel welcome in it.

I used to travel more, the "hostel people" were quite kind, but that's nothing to do with hacking per se and I'm at an age I'd be intruding if I got a bed in a dorm. (People don't use them like they used to, everything is a party now it seems -- the last place I stayed that threw people out for making noise in the sleeping areas and the like went out of business.)

> A lot of white knights in the community as well who hide dirty secrets and make big noise about other people to deflect attention from themselves.

Yeah I knew at least one guy who handed out a lot of unwanted hugs who now rolls with the so called badass army. People are performative.

[vurpo]

Last time I went to CCC I was greeted with a giant Antifaschistische Aktion banner at the entrance. That made me feel pretty safe about the event (unironically).

[brazzy]

> I actually was told by someone at my last Defcon they were boycotting CCC because they allowed Nazi imagery or something to that effect, which surprisede me given... you know... Germany.

Yeah, there's no way that is true. I could easily see it happen the other way round, some edgy American kid turning up with a swastika shirt, getting thrown out, and throwing a tantrum because muh free speech, when he should be happy he wasn't arrested by the police.

[fallowkevin]

Maybe I'm conflating being supportive of Trump / Trump hats at cons with literal swastikas.

(The few who donned them at Defcon were not given a warm welcome, to put it mildly.)

I was very jet lagged and had self medicated a lot due to death threats plus being in an abusive living situation (so desparately seeking employment to take me out of precarity) -- I wasn't taking detailed notes.

But it was a prominent person who made the claim, maybe they were inventing a reason to avoid DE, who knows.

There's been some dark things in the community

[birdyrooster]

> No, Derby was run by a gang.

That isn’t a refutation of my argument but okay.