[mikepurvis]

See, it's funny because as a consumer of software, I've overall been pretty pleased with solutions that come out of that process (think Jenkins, Artifactory, Elastic, Bazel).

So it does seem capable of leading to reasonable results on the eventual timescale, despite various inconveniences and tradeoffs along the way. Of course, lots of terrible software has certainly been written in Java too, so it's not fair to compare Java's cream of the crop with some random PyPI package and draw conclusions.

[ethbr0]

I think Java got a lot better when it stopped trying to bring along a OS GUI toolkit.

Hence the vastly different experience between Java-exposed-as-app and Java-exposed-as-webapp.