[kar5pt]

I could flip this around and say that focusing on internal causes of depression is a way for those in power to avoid the social responsibility of having to change it. We can kick the responsibility ball back and forth all day.

Why is it so hard for people to get adequate sleep, exercise, a good diet and social interaction? Even most non-depressed people I know don't do these things well (except maybe the last one), so this isn't something unique to depression.

[ryanwaggoner]

Exactly this. We throw people into a sick society and then blame them for their lack of personal responsibility when they get sick themselves.

As an individual, yes, do what you can (which might mean changing to a less “sick” culture or subculture so you’re not fighting a sisyphean battle). And also, we should do better as a society.

[s1artibartfast]

Society is simply a collection of individuals and their behavior. It is not synonymous with politics.

For example, If people lack meaningful social and don't want to socialize with their neighbors, call friends, or have dialogue with their partners, you can't legislate solution to that problem.

[ryanwaggoner]

Who said anything about politics or legislation?

[s1artibartfast]

It seemed to me that you were proposing that (1) we as individuals do more and also (2) we as a society should do more.

Maybe we fundamentally agree, but I was pointing out that society IS the individuals. doing (1) is how you do (2).

Maybe this is pedantic or my own bias, but I think it is important to keep in mind. Some people use "society" as a substitute for "other people but not me".

When some people talk about changing social norms, they mean forcing other people to act opposed to leading by example.

At the end of the day, I think I agree with you that we do live in a sick society. The best remedy is to cure the sickness in ourselves.

[ryanwaggoner]

I agree, and it’s an excellent point. I guess I also wonder if we can be more aware as individuals of the forces shaping society and culture, and actively try to engage in changing them. But it still starts with ourselves.

[elric]

Same with drugs. There's a bit of cocaine-epidemic where I live. With lots of gung-ho politicians clamoring for a "war on drugs" and "zero tolerance" and "hold the addicts accountable", etc. But I don't hear any politicians talking about why so many people want to snort cocaine...

[goldfeld]

That's because they love their cocaine.

[curioussavage]

Nice points. You don’t even have to argue about internal vs external causes. The real question is about capability. To me when a person is not receptive to advice about lifestyle changes it’s less about stubbornness or ignorance and more the patient communicating apathy, lack of energy, motivation.