Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by lxgr 1233 days ago
Does Bitcoin support dispute resolution (i.e. chargebacks) yet?
1 comments

It doesn't need to. Transact with vendors you actually trust who have a track record you can verify (which necessitates people being trustworthy to earn business—unlike our current economic order).
How would that not lead to the inevitable concentration of economic activity in a few trusted platforms?

Today, I can shop at pretty much any merchant on the web, under the reasonable expectation that my bank will file a dispute for me if the merchant makes a run for it and I never receive any goods or services. Even in case of merchant bankruptcy, I'm not exposed to any risk.

In a world of non-reversible payments, I'd probably stick to Amazon exclusively. That seems pretty bad for small/new/independent merchants.

> How would that not lead to the inevitable concentration of economic activity in a few trusted platforms?

Because it would force people to be honest in order to eat. Economic activity as a whole would become a lot more transparent because people will avoid hiring you or buying from you if you have a bad reputation. The inverse is also true, rewarding the business owner who invests in quality and customer service.

> if the merchant makes a run for it

Again, this is a discernment issue not a systems issue. In that particular case, you can set up an escrow transaction that only releases funds if the transaction goes through. EBay has already proven, too, that most people are honest by default so this is a non-issue.

> In a world of non-reversible payments, I'd probably stick to Amazon exclusively. That seems pretty bad for small/new/independent merchants.

That's a personal choice.

> [...] it would force people to be honest in order to eat.

But how do I detect honesty in first interaction with an unknown party?

> [...] people will avoid hiring you or buying from you if you have a bad reputation [...]

As a merchant, what if I have no reputation? How do I ever get my first customer?

> EBay has already proven, too, that most people are honest by default [...]

...on a centralized platform that can arbitrate trust!

> But how do I detect honesty in first interaction with an unknown party?

It should be obvious. The guy who shows up to your intro meeting well-dressed, prepared, etc with references is going to be preferable to the guy who shows up smelling like vodka in tattered clothes.

> As a merchant, what if I have no reputation? How do I ever get my first customer?

The same way you do under the current system. Go work for someone else to build up credentials/experience, or, offer to do stuff for free in exchange for referrals and testimonials.

> on a centralized platform that can arbitrate trust!

Can, but often doesn't need to.

> The guy who shows up to your intro meeting [...]

Do you regularly hold in-person intro meetings for ordering sub-$100 items online?

> Go work for someone else to build up credentials/experience, or, offer to do stuff for free in exchange for referrals and testimonials.

And then passport it to my own store how, exactly? "Trust me, I'm honestseller897 on Amazon/eBay"?

>> on a centralized platform that can arbitrate trust!

> Can, but often doesn't need to.

The fact that it does, when required, is the reason for rarely needing to.

And on the vendor side? Are you suggesting that either all sellers know a) the credit worthiness of their customers or b) don’t extend any credit?

Either one seems like a major downside for the seller.

> Are you suggesting that either all sellers know a) the credit worthiness of their customers or b) don’t extend any credit?

That's up to the business owner, but considering the utter destruction its done to the world I would say most businesses should not extend any credit.

The nice thing about Bitcoin is it's a transaction layer and people can build services on top of it. Someone could start a guarantor business that other businesses pay to verify creditworthiness. They do that already now, the difference being that it's a completely dark system controlled by people with no incentive to fairly or accurately represent your worthiness.

> Bitcoin is it's a transaction layer and people can build services on top of it

The transaction layer is arguably the least interesting service the credit card and other incumbent transaction/payment networks provide.

Deciding whether to move money, and possibly whether to move it back, is where the value is created.

> The transaction layer is arguably the least interesting service the credit card and other incumbent transaction/payment networks provide.

It isn't until you can't transact over it because your government blocked it or received an international sanction that prevents you, an innocent citizen from transacting. Or, if you reside in a country where that network does not exist.

> Deciding whether to move money, and possibly whether to move it back, is where the value is created.

Incorrect. The ability, not the decision, is where the value resides. I can decide all I want that I'd like the bank to send $20K to someone overseas for me, but that likely means jumping through several hoops to do it. With Bitcoin, I can just do it.