[petodo]

> Your local businesses won't speak English, your baker, the cab drivers, the people working the public transport, at your local convenience store, the government officials, the deliverymen, your child's school-teacher, other parents at school, 90% of the people you will cross path with on the street, most written and recorded information about local events...

And why would I wanna speak with baker, cab driver, public transport workers, convenience store workers, deliverymen, etc.?

I don't speak to these people even back home, I just buy what I want in shop, put it on checkout and pay, only thing you need to learn is answer question about loyalty card or plastic bag and the way you wanna pay (by card), all you need to learn is two words "No" to plastic bag, show your loyalty card if you wanna use it and say "card" and show it so you can pay.

I can order taxi in the app, get in, say greeting and sit there until arrival.

Public transport workers are closed in their cabin and you should NOT speak to them.

Deliveryman will just call you he is on the way, if you are at home and to come downstairs and you just sign or pick up your package, sdo you just need to say "OK, I'm home" to phone.

Other parents in school not speaking English are honestly not worth speaking (similar with obese people since that shows a lot about them), because if you don't speak English it shows bigger ignorance than not being able to speak local obscure language as English speaking foreigner.

School teachers tend to be old, so yes, you could hit language barrier there and would have to deal with that with some English speaking parent.

90% people on the street won't speak English, but for sure majority of adults in productive age will at least in big cities where foreigners move (and in Scandinavia you could hit even that 90% probably).

Most written information online can be easily translated with built in translator.

Honestly only place where you need to speak local language is communication with gov officials since those often tend to be PITA/xenophobic projecting their own complexes since successful people won't work for gov, it's usually job for lazy people who don't mind lower pay and were most likely also lazy to learn English (but to be fair to them, many of them speak English as well).

[luckylion]

> And why would I wanna speak with baker, cab driver, public transport workers, convenience store workers, deliverymen, etc.?

Yeah, why would you ever want to speak to people who aren't important. Fucking serfs, they should stay in their place and silently serve you.

I agree, that kind of person's opinion on the country around them can safely be ignored, because it's based on ignorance.

[petodo]

>> And why would I wanna speak with baker, cab driver, public transport workers, convenience store workers, deliverymen, etc.?

> Yeah, why would you ever want to speak to people who aren't important. Fucking serfs, they should stay in their place and silently serve you

Seems like you are projecting some of your own issues into what I wrote, because I didn't write anything about "fucking serfs" or these people not being important.

I don't see reason why would I wanna speak with them while they are doing their job, same as I don't expect anyone speaking to me, when I am doing my job (unless your job is speaking to people in call centre). We can all speak happily together after work in our spare time (in which case they cease to be bakers, cab drivers, etc. and they are just people), during work time you should work instead wasting time on small talk, so I see nothing wrong with expecting people providing services for money to provide me service I am paying for without annoying small talk wasting everyone's time including them.

[ad404b8a372f2b9]

90% of people on the street won't speak English in big European cities, no. I'm sure you can find some cities where they do like Stockholm, but that's the exception not the rule.

The rest of the things you said only confirm you have no intention to integrate and to be a pleasant addition to the community you live in. Your comments about people who don't speak English, and your attitude towards local workers are pretty vile.

[petodo]

> 90% of people on the street won't speak English in big European cities, no.

And who chose that percentage as some holy grail or something important? I'd say in big European cities at least 40-60% of people in productive age (18-60) will speak at least basic English, though not sure how is it relevant, even if only 1/3 of people in street spoke English it would be plenty.

> The rest of the things you said only confirm you have no intention to integrate and to be a pleasant addition to the community you live in.

The rest of the things have nothing really to do with integration since I behave same even in my home country, I don't see reason to wate my time with small talks and people doing their jobs, I have better things to do like spending time with my kids or rest. Not even sure what's pleasant addition and what's the community, those are foreign words for me, I am independent adult who doesn't feel urge to be part of some community as some young childless kid looking for their place in the word.

> Your comments about people who don't speak English, and your attitude towards local workers are pretty EFFICIENT/TIME SAVING.

FTFY

[BlueTemplar]

That community is the one where your kids will grow up and adopt at least some if not most of the values of.

You are deliberately deciding to exclude yourself from it, which is likely to have bad consequences for you and your kids (since you won't be competent to help them).

[petodo]

For starters I speak local language of country where I live and this dumb discussion is hypothetical when I defend people unwilling to learn local language, because they can get by with English which is perfectly fine and I have urge to have small talk with other people while they work even in my home country.

But yes excluding myself from sheep in whatever community whatever language they speak whether my mother tongue, English or language I don't speak, is perfectly fine with me, I have no urge to belong somewhere to some category you can put me for your convenience and that's how I (will) raise my kids to be independend and have critical thinking instead just doing same as everyone else just because everyone (dumb) is doing it.

Not sure why would I be not competent to help my kids because I don't do same things like everyone else with need to belong to some community, they seem to be doing fine already in elementary school.

[BlueTemplar]

You won't be (as) competent (as you could be) because your understanding of the environment is going to be lacking. And would be tremendously more so if you weren't even competent in the language.

As an adult, you might (or might not) be able to mostly isolate yourself from your environment and its influence on you (probably not if you have to work). IMHO you are foolish to expect your kids to be able to do so (and it's not like it would be even a good idea to try !)

"Independent" doesn't mean "of the society", it means, on the contrary, adapted to it !

(No question that having critical thinking is good, but remember how it starts with trying to being critical of your own biases, a good portion of which stem from your own history : education, upbringing, culture...)

[varnaud]

The way you write feels like English isn't your first language. Sorry if I'm wrong, French is my native language. But in case you had to learn English, you need to understand that you had the time, resources and intelligence to learn it to a very proficient degree. This isn't true for everyone. The parents you're calling obese and ignorant, they might be a bit like you in that they don't want to use their time to learn something they don't really have to and rather spend time with their children. Older folks usually had very poor English education at school if any and consumed zero English media, unlike a kid today with access to the Internet.

Also in many countries, teachers and hospital workers, amongst other professions, are government workers. You calling them usually lazy people is insulting and ignorant.

[petodo]

I mean it's quite obvious I am not native English speaker and I don't bother to perfect my language.

> you need to understand that you had the time, resources and intelligence to learn it to a very proficient degree.

English is taught on this level for decades already, so it would be odd if you were in productive age and didn't experience it.

> The parents you're calling obese and ignorant, they might be a bit like you in that they don't want to use their time to learn something they don't really have to and rather spend time with their children.

Nothing wrong with that, same as I find nothing wrong with me for not intending talk to them, while commenter I'm responding to thinks we should talk to each other.

> Also in many countries, teachers and hospital workers, amongst other professions, are government workers. You calling them usually lazy people is insulting and ignorant.

Gov official is someone working directly for gov, meaning (gov) bureaucrat. Teachers, hospital workers I would call state workers, certainly not gov "officials", but maybe my understanding in English is wrong.

[anthk]

Except for corporations, tech related jobs, science and academia, high range politics and tourism, English is useless for the 90% of Europe.

[petodo]

Yeah because nobody listens to American music and watch American TV shows/movies to start with. I find it much more enjoyable when you can actually understand what they say.

[Tainnor]

You seem to live in a bubble. There's plenty of people who don't care much for these things as, say, the German market for movies, books, etc. is big enough (if you include dubbing).

[zirgs]

In many countries governments are only allowed to communicate in the official language.

So stuff like tax forms or whatever will not be available in any other languages. You'll have to get a translator yourself.

[petodo]

> Honestly only place where you need to speak local language is communication with gov officials

That's what I wrote. But how often you deal with gov officials and various forms, on average once or twice a year? Is it worth learning whole new language to fill bunch of forms, which can be filled with help of friend within few minutes?

Btw. officials are not allowed LEGALLY communicate with you in other than official language (in letters, official forms). In spoken language it's their word against your word in case of argument, so there is no reason (other than being lazy) to not hold informal communication in English, if the official is nice/welcoming person (and it's actually required in some positions with foreigners, despite legal documents being only in local language).

[anthk]

>which can be filled with help of friend within few minutes?

Good luck with Spanish and French tax-related forms. In case of Spain, the documents are full of legalese jargon not even a native can grasp it at 100% without a gov website in an aside tab reading twice or trice the legal terms.

[petodo]

> Good luck with Spanish and French tax-related forms. In case of Spain, the documents are full of legalese jargon not even a native can grasp it at 100% without a gov website in an aside tab reading twice or trice the legal terms.

So you say one more reason not even bother trying to learn language for this reason, since you stand no chance if even native speaker can't understand it.

[anthk]

No, it's a reason to talk to a native speaker in its own language to get understood well in order to avoid hard mistakes.