[djtango]

It's about making the effort to assimilate with your host country. Embracing and empathising with their way of life which begins with learning their language.

I've always found it frustrating whenever I meet people who don't try to integrate with the country they're living in - both when I've lived at home and in foreign countries...

[_benedict]

Some people are really bad at language, and depending on the context it’s probably fine to let them off the hook. I once participated in a French class in Paris with a guy whose wife was French, and he was utterly hopeless. I’m not sure he was ever going to develop the skill, even though he tried. Though I hope I’m wrong about that.

I think a journalist writing about a country is a special case though, that doesn’t get affordancee.

[Aaronmacaron]

I don't really believe this. Of course some people have more of a tendency to be good at languages than others but I think the guy from you story probably didn't try hard enough or maybe had a completely wrong approach. There are many countries where virtually all people speak a foreign language which shows that it is possible for almost anybody to pick up another language.

[_benedict]

I really dislike the “didn’t try hard enough” angle. He seemed to be trying, he really wanted to be able to settle in to a productive life with his wife there. It’s lacking in empathy to assume you have all the relevant facts to pass judgement.

Countries where people are multilingual from a young age clearly have some major differences to those where they are not, and even in those countries many people are not multilingual.

[notch656c]

There is a theory that children have a "language acquisition device" that goes from muscular brawn to a flubby dough-boy with age in most people. IDK if that's accurate but there does seem to be something to it.

The countries where everybody is multi-lingual this almost assuredly happens in middle to early childhood.

[Aaronmacaron]

It is true that the plasticity of children's brains is higher than that of adults. Research also suggests that in very early childhood, children have an exceptionally good ability to discern different sounds and the ability to learn how to make those sounds, although this ability is lost at some point.

However, I believe many people overestimate the advantage children have in learning a language. For example, a four-year-old can have a basic conversation and communicate their needs, but they are not yet able to have a complex conversation. Their vocabulary and pronunciation may not be fully developed yet.

It's important to note that this child has spent a significant portion of their life learning the language and is exposed to it daily, and likely has parents or others to practice their language skills with. Despite this, their language level is not yet perfect.

The point I am trying to make is that it takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn a language, and there is no shortcut or "hack." Most adults would likely do comparably well if they dedicated the same time and effort to learning a language as children do.

[asimpletune]

I think one of the problems is that many people know about this child super power and then give up. OTH, I live in Italy which is full of adult African immigrants, and they all speak Italian.

The fact is any adult can learn any language, they just either don’t have to or don’t want to. I’m not saying it’s easy or it’s the best decision for every situation, but it’s definitely possible. This is true even more so if it’s a popular language with a lot of resources to learn it, and you live in the country where practice is virtually free.

[notch656c]

Is there any survival bias here?

I don't want to be too presumptuous here but my understanding is there are a lot of desperate broke African immigrants finding their way into Italy.

In such a situation you would be forced to rapidly acquire the language to survive, move on somewhere else, or possibly resort to crime because you are unable to communicate to secure a job (which <should> rapidly leads to expulsion from the country). Bad learners get tossed into the last 2 bins, and thus unseen.

Comparatively if white American hacker guy shows up flush with tech cash there's really not much chance I'm going to find myself on police radar or starve not learning the language, even if I'm there for an extended period and even if there illegally.

[asimpletune]

> Is there any survival bias here?

Probably, but I don't think it challenges the legitimacy of the original point at all.

> Comparatively if white American hacker guy shows up flush with tech cash [...] not much chance I'm going to find myself on police radar or starve not learning the language

True, but you might not have a very good time.

[blodkorv]

Yes, most people just assumes that learning a language is equaly easy for everyone.

[djtango]

Tbf to my original parent comment, a close friend fits the description of someone who wields English extremely well and is hopeless at foreign languages so I'm not completely unempathetic to people who struggle