[lmm]

> Its much more likely that me or my family suffers from a keylogger or ransomware attack than we suffer as a result of government intrusion into our digital lives.

Are you sure? How would you know? We can't know how many people the government blackmails with data taken from their iphones, because it's illegal to publish information about them doing so, whereas ransomware attacks are widely publicised.

[sbuk]

As key component of threat modelling is risk management and modelling.

I would counter the “government blackmailing people” by questioning the risk this poses to me as an individual. As much as we’d like to imagine it, and as much as it can often times feel like it, we don’t live in a Kafkaesque society, by and large, as the significant majority of us are of zero interest and have little of anything worth blackmailing.

[denton-scratch]

It seems to be routine for rape complainants to have to hand over their phone and have their messages scrutinized, as a pre-requisite to proceeding with an investigation. That is a form of government blackmail.

[sbuk]

I disagree entirely with that notion. If you make a serious accusation, you must be prepared to hand over the necessary evidence to assist the investigation and get a conviction. I'll also say that at that point, the risk has changed dramatically. Risk isn't a static thing. It needs to be assessed regularly and evaluated when your threat model changes. Your exposure to risk is still a factor.

[denton-scratch]

> hand over the necessary evidence

Of course. But you shouldn't have to spill your guts about your entire life (I understand that young folk nowadays life their lives in Instagram selfies).

And more to the point, the first step for the policemen investigating a rape complaint should be to investigate the complaint, not the complainant. If the investigation of the complaint raises questions about the complainant, then there might be grounds for seizing the complainant's device. But they can't make device seizure a pre-requisite for doing their job.

[chiggsy]

This is rubbish. The police investigate the claim and based on the results of the investigation, the prosecutor decides whether charges can be laid. The prosecutor!

Not the police!

[chiggsy]

What? Where is this routine? Where do you live? What if you don't have a phone? Why would you give your phone to the police in this situation instead of the prosecutor?

Which government? What level? My god, who told you this thing? For what other crimes is this policy enforced?