[moonchrome]

Except it's extremely demotivating for people doing actual work and getting paid similar money.

My first job was in an old newspaper printing business (this was back when newspapers were highly profitable and a respected medium). We had a few old people in our department who were basically kept there doing nothing because they didn't want to retrain on new technology but they were friends with management so they weren't let go before retirement. Which sounds super humane and socially sensitive. Except there were a few of us new hires that couldn't get permanent contracts because the departments were "fully staffed", we were busting our ass and making 1/2 of what these guys were for doing nothing. And this "fair treatment" wasn't there for everyone - just the people who were friends with upper management - basically if you paid tribute by inviting a few people up to the management offices now and then, bring a bottle of nice booze and locking the door for a few hours, doing out of work favors, etc. There were people who were laid off and who had to retrain to remain.

It was a sobering experience after my rosy childhood world views about fairness in society.

[GuB-42]

It is hard for the "puffer" people too.

When they are on the clock, people generally want to be at least a little bit useful, at least do something that will be of value to someone. Sitting there doing nothing is not fun.

[xiphias2]

I think you don't know people them.

There are lots of people who would love to just get their salary and date people online + do their private stuff all the time, and I think it's totally fine that not everybody wants to work hard.

The problem here is of course that it's not good for people who are working hard.

Sama is super proud that there are only 250 people in OpenAI, he understands that slackers destroy companies.

[whywhywhywhy]

Pushing underperforming people to do something, anything of value is way more pressure and stress on the performers pushing them than the underperforming.

[philihp]

I volunteer as tribute.

[whywhywhywhy]

>We had a few old people in our department who were basically kept there doing nothing because they didn't want to retrain on new technology but they were friends with management so they weren't let go before retirement.

Being friends with management is doing something though. It’s messed up but if I had the resources there’s definitely people I know who I’d pay to have around just cos socializing with them helps me work better with no requirements on their own output.

[moonchrome]

Haha I doubt drinking at the office since noon was boosting productivity (although I'm sure they would claim it was) - they were just riding on the insane deals they had while the newspapers were relevant for politics and advertisers.

Sort of how Google could have thousands of employees doing nothing and still be insanely profitable. Since they were employee owned after transitioning from communism (majority share at least) there was no pressure to optimize profits. The pathologies of that were interesting to say the least.

[whywhywhywhy]

>Haha I doubt drinking at the office since noon was boosting productivity

I dunno, seemed like to worked out very profitably for the boomers. Maybe they’re onto something.

[vintermann]

Those people would probably get an excellent stack rank too.

[cudgy]

> Except there were a few of us new hires that couldn't get permanent contracts because the departments were "fully staffed", we were busting our ass and making 1/2 of what these guys were for doing nothing.

If the “lifers” actually did something, you would not have been hired at all, right? So, in a way, their slacking actually created a job for you.

[moonchrome]

It was worst of both worlds - they had to use temp agencies and pay shit because the positions were filled on paper - company would have constant turnover and no young people getting properly trained - and people would quit fast because they figured they would never climb up untill the lifers retired.

Also these kinds of environments (people having too much time on their hands, nothing to do) has other nasty side effects - it's the extreme of corporate politics - clan/tribes and all that. I was good with computers so I got moved to IT department and I got to see it for a while - it was surreal compared to things I've seen in tech.