[pavlov]

If you have $10B worth of stock in a company with $440B market cap, you’ll have no trouble converting those shares to cash.

If you have $10B worth of Bitcoin today, good luck trying to extract $10B in real dollars out of the crypto system.

[jjoe]

Let me get ahold of the CEO of Bitcoin

[latchkey]

If you're sitting on $10B of Bitcoin, you can certainly use it for collateral.

No need to convert it to cash, unless you need to buy Twitter, or something.

[pavlov]

Where does one get a multi-billion-dollar line of credit with only crypto as collateral?

I’m skeptical that, say, Morgan Stanley would do that. But I may be wrong.

[latchkey]

If you're sitting on $10B worth of anything, you know people.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ifiwonthelottery/comments/9qv4e1/po...

[pavlov]

My argument is that $10B of Bitcoin isn’t worth anywhere near that.

You can’t sell it without crashing the market, and you probably can’t borrow multiple billions of cash against it either because nobody in the crypto ecosystem has that kind of liquidity anymore. I’m open to be proven wrong by evidence.

[latchkey]

Argument from ignorance fallacy. I'd love to prove you wrong, but the fact is that it is impossible to prove.

My own experience says that there is a lot more money out there than anyone can ever hope of comprehending. A good portion of that money belongs to people who are never seen. Not everyone tries to be a public figure. Not everyone is in the US. I just saw a video of a G-Wagon in Saigon (~$650k)... Vietnam is a very poor country on the outside, but you'd be astonished how much money people have there.

The amount of money in crypto is staggering. I know of people who started mining ETH from day one... and didn't stop. I can only imagine their wealth. It would be easy for them to sell off chunks over the last 4 years without anyone noticing.

Needless to say, I'm sure that if someone wanted to get rid of it, they could. It might take some time and effort, but when you have god levels of money, all you have is time.

[pavlov]

I feel like you and I are actually arguing the same thing. A lot of people in crypto are obviously crypto-rich and have been converting to cash over the years to buy those fancy cars and penthouses.

So who's left buying today? Retail frenzy brought the fresh dollars but it's dried up. Those crypto-millionaires don't need to convert their cash back to crypto. They own enough crypto already, and (as you describe) they went through an effort to build cash positions, so why revert that... So where does the $10 billion in cash come from?

[dlubarov]

You don't necessarily need a bank for that; DeFi platforms like Aave can provide the equivalent of a margin loan. Looks like the current (variable) APY for WBTC is 1.11%.

[lokedhs]

And then what? Can they provide you with 10 B of real money?

[dlubarov]

You would get stablecoins and redeem them for fiat.