[orra]

> I wish there were something more concrete we could do to support each other

Unionisation would help. We don't do ourselves any favours by not unionising.

Almost all job security and employment rights were won by unions and strike action. No wonder unions are a dirty word—according to corporate America.

Even when the jobs can't be saved, employment rights are helpful. The Google? Microsoft? announcement basically said, we've already fired some of the American staff, but in other countries were are merely starting the statutory consultation process. That means a longer period of pay.

[Leherenn]

Job security might be a good thing at the individual level, but imo it's pretty awful at the system level. It promotes inefficiencies. It's much better to have a liquid employment market with a solid social net instead.

Switzerland does it pretty well. Employment is at will (in that employers can fire anyone without a justification), but health insurance is mostly not tied to employment, and you get 70% of your salary for up to two years. Compare to say France, where short term contracts are very common and other shitty employment practices abounds because employers are scared to commit.

[marcinzm]

>Even when the jobs can't be saved, employment rights are helpful. The Google? Microsoft? announcement basically said, we've already fired some of the American staff, but in other countries were are merely starting the statutory consultation process. That means a longer period of pay.

The American staff are also paid decently more than other countries. Is getting a 40% pay cut worth getting a few more months of pay before being laid off?

[orra]

> Is getting a 40% pay cut worth

I didn't say we should get a 40% pay cut; that's a non-sequitur. I said we should improve working conditions.

[marcinzm]

Nothing comes for free. You compared the layoff conditions to Europe and I compared the compensation to Europe.

[dvngnt_]

yes. it will benefit everyone. especially in health care