[diebir]

I mean that trying to heat with electricity is not feasible for a van. You need 2-4 kilowatt of heat to stay warm in winter. In summer, AC is another unsolved problem: most of these RVs hang in campgrounds on shore power because this is the only way to get consistent AC in warmer locales.

[leoedin]

If you use a heat pump (aka an air conditioner in heating mode) that 2kW becomes maybe 500W of electrical power.

Running that heater for 24 hours a day would take 12kWh - or about 1/6 of the battery in an electric van.

That seems feasible to me. Sure, it's a bit annoying - you have to charge more often - but you could get through a couple of days off grid.

[anon7725]

IME RV heat pumps are not worth much below around 10C. They’re okay to take some chill out of the air in temperate weather. The propane/diesel furnace is a much better option for heating below 10C.

[Epa095]

What's special about RV heat pumps which makes them so bad compared to regular heat pumps? Heat pumps have gotten significantly better lately, and house-models are effecient down to -25C. Maybe the RV models you have tried are mostly older models?

[SigmundA]

RV heat pump are not that sophisticated because there doesn't seem to be much demand, they simply flip over to furnace. They are the same on the cooling side, they are no where near as advanced as a modern variable speed mini split.

There is no reason they could be more advanced with lower temperature support, they would just cost more. Many people put mini splits when making their own RV's because they work better and want to run off battery as much as possible.

[natch]

What are you talking about. EVs can afford to have absolutely massive AC and heat for that matter because that big battery is multipurpose. Well big battery in good EVs at least, not in this prototype, but I’m sure they’ll up it if they do a real product.

And also, as you say, they will usually be on power (also because they’ll want to charge up for their next leg, which solar will not be sufficient for) so I’m twice over not seeing a reason for concern here.

[diebir]

I just own a camper van. In current state of affairs, heat is a solved problem with diesel. Air conditioning still does not have a viable solution, aside from shore power. You can't practically use electric for heating or anything really beyond powering the lights and the heater fan.

Most vans max out around 3kWth. I have seen people use a used Tesla battery, but only have seen one report.

[natch]

I guess we are talking past each other. You seem to be expressing perfectly valid conclusions based on the current state of RVs, and I am thinking about what will be possible in the future when instead of a gas or diesel tank, some RVs will have a massive, massive, battery as current EVs do.

[cjensen]

I assume this van is meant to have shore power for AC and Heat.

Bigger issue is the current range limit of 108 miles. Not really sure why they bothered to design an interior before solving that minor issue.

[SigmundA]

According to the Winnenbago rep that I heard talking when I saw it in person they are just working out the systems and design issues so they are ready when the range catches up.

This van had a 48v house battery that ran air conditioner and inverter and some DC-DC converters for step down from 400v traction battery to 48v house to 12v systems, they had the electrical system layed out on a board which was interesting. Most RV systems are 12v or 120v at this point in the US.

[Johnny555]

>Bigger issue is the current range limit of 108 miles

If that’s 108 highway miles, it would cover about 80% of my RV trips. Even when I go on a long trip, I usually don’t drive much more than 200 miles in a day, so with a charge stop in the middle, this could work even for a long trip. Assuming, of course, that I can find a DC fast charger so a charge stop is 45 minutes and not 8 hours.

But RV parks will need time to prepare and put in metered chargers, since most aren’t going to be able to handle many eRVs charging at 240v/50a all night long, many already have trouble keeping up with AC loads on a hot day.

[jillesvangurp]

Electric RVs would have tens of kwh of battery storage. You'd be able to run heating, AC, warm water, dishwashers, whatever for quite some time without charging. If you have a full charge and you really need 4KW, a 60kwh battery would last for 15 hours. That would be a really tiny battery for an RV of course. You'd likely want something a bit bigger. Maybe a 100kwh (25 hours) or even more. You get my point, it's not going to be an issue for most people. You can still plug it in or drive to the fast charger once a day or conserve a bit of power and maybe don't run the AC 24/7 on full blast.

[diebir]

12 kilowatt hours of battery storage gives you 3 hours of heat at 4 kilowatts. In 3 hours you freeze, literally (it's -0F/-18C outside, around Antero, Colorado).

12 kilowatt hours of battery is close 10 $10K in cost and takes 6 feet by 6 feet area and weighs 200lb.

Whatever you may think, in RV world:

1. Heat only can be done with gas/diesel/propane 2. AC consistently only on shore power 3. Cooking on propane 4. You will still be not living consistently in cold areas (like the Rockies) or warm areas (like FL). 5. Most of those long term rviers just hang on campgrounds for the electric power reasons (and sewer hookup).

So, electric RV is a dumb idea and will never be here.

[jillesvangurp]

Nonsense, it's already here. You can buy this or other vehicles like it. Or buy some electrical van and convert it.

Anyway, a lower end Tesla can be bought for around 40-50K. It comes with 60kwh of battery and they make a nice profit on them and you are obviously buying a whole car, not just the battery. So your battery cost argument is simply wrong

Cost of batteries actually dropped below 100$/kwh probably quite some time ago for them. So the cost for 100kwh battery would be less than 10K at this point. You are off by an order of magnitude.

These are not light vehicles obviously. But an RV is way bigger than a Tesla and you could probably easily fit 200kwh of batteries in there. Or more. Which is nice for range but overkill for just running the AC or heating. People drive EVs in the arctic circle in Norway. -18C is a nice warm winter day over there. You'd want the heating on, obviously. This is not a problem. It's a solved problem.

The new tesla semi probably has close to a mwh. I think the F150 has 130 kwh and you can run your house on it for days.

Most electric vans have around 60-70 kwh. Which is pretty modest and enough for a modest range. And yet it's plenty for a recreational vehicle although a bit limiting in range probably. If you are going out camping in extreme conditions, you might want a bigger battery than that. But otherwise, it's completely fine for recreational use for normal people as is.

[diebir]

60 kwh at 4 kilowatt gives you 15 hours of heat in a van in cold weather. Granted, you may not need full 4 kilowatt of heat at all tines, so let's say it's one full day. You drive to BigSky Montana to ski and after two days your RV is frozen solid, including all the water and everything is dead and leaking. All you can do at this point is to try and find a shore hookup or an EV charger. But of course the batteries won't even charge because they are too cold.

Electric RV, you just can't, sorry.

[Gibbon1]

> You drive to Big Sky Montana

And you plug your van in when you get there.

If you're the type to boondock you have solar panels, extra solar panels and a generator.

[stonogo]

Or you drive south.