[_yb2s]

It seems like BS on the surface because it’s explained as a supernatural thing that gets results without effort. That’s not at all what it really is, really it’s a mental hack to align your unconscious with your conscious goals so you can stop self sabotaging, and actually take the real world actions that bring about the outcome you want. It’s simple, real, and works.

The magic part is a way of getting modern people that aren’t even aware they have an unconscious to directly work with it, by feeling they are working with some external magic.

[passion__desire]

If you think you have so much control over the unconscious as you are claiming, try asking your unconscious to internally swap the conscious perception of red and green colours. If you can't even do this basic task, forget about aligning external world.

[_yb2s]

Your reply doesn't make sense to me. I'm not sure what you mean by "aligning external world." I am talking about aligning the goals of your consciousness with the goals of your unconsciousness, e.g. internal alignment so you aren't self sabotaging without even realizing it.

Importantly, the ability to do this is not something one can automatically do, but requires lots of training and practice, and is also a key goal of most systems of psychological therapy and religious practice. My assertion is that "The Secret" is one such system, and can be viewed as a type of meditation technique.

There are a huge number of psychological methods that aim to work on this goal, whereas the 'swapping colors' thing you mention is not something I have ever seen as a claimed possibility of any method. I'm not sure why you would expect to be able to do that, or why not being able to do that would mean you wouldn't be able to do anything else.

[passion__desire]

I gave you a simple task for the unconscious which as far as we know you can't physically do. i.e. align your subconscious to switch red and green perception.

[_yb2s]

We have no idea how the unconscious works, all we have is a bunch of hacks discovered by trial and error that do specific things, sort of like discovering easter eggs or exploiting bugs in a closed source software program.

Some of the things we can do are really shocking and cool, but they are still pretty random and mostly discovered by monks, monastics, etc. that were basically exploring random things within themselves. For example, Tummo meditation allows us to raise our body temperature and withstand extreme cold. But we lack a mechanistic understanding of how it all works, so we still can't develop even the simplest things on purpose.

[passion__desire]

A broken clock is right twice per day. I won't take monastic people as authority on anything. They could have internally investigated that their brains are made of neurons but they had no such privileged access.

[_yb2s]

> I won't take monastic people as authority on anything

You are really missing something hugely important here by expecting a rational, mechanistic model and understanding of our brain, and dismissing anything else. Monastics don't care how the brain works mechanistically, and that isn't what they have been working on for thousands of years. They have been focused on finding ways to achieve very specific outcomes, and have largely succeeded at that.

For example, in Taoism there is a specific objection to seeking mechanistic understanding for what the methods such as qi gong are actually doing physically in the body. They know that such mechanisms exist, but they explicitly don't care, as it's a temping distraction from achieving mastery at the actual technique. One can become a neuroscientist instead of a qi gong master, but you will have a different set of outcomes, and will not also be a qi gong master. Perhaps someday neuroscience will advance to that level to achieve anything qi gong can do, but it is far from that right now[1].

Modern western medicine for example, despite claiming to be scientific and rational, has also mostly taken this approach. We don't understand enough about the body to correctly explain how most medical treatments work. We only know empirically that they work, and so we use them, with great success despite mostly discovering them with trial and error. In some cases we have supposed explanations, but the explanations are incomplete, and keep changing as our understanding grows, yet the methods continue to work regardless.

Would you refuse to go under general anesthesia during a life saving surgery because we still lack an understanding of how or why it works? I sure would not. Anesthesiologists completely lack a special privileged understanding of how their methods work, and instead focus only on following protocols that have been found to be safe and effective despite a complete lack of biological understanding. The way monastics 'hack the brain' with careful protocols discovered by trial and error is virtually identical to this.

Edit: I am writing all of this because I strongly relate to your perspective, and shared it when I was younger. I am a researcher in a bio-medical field, and developing more respect and understanding of these types of things was a long process I went through, when I used to reject them as irrational BS. I now use some of these methods in my daily life, and have a better quality of life as a result, yet I don't understand them. I am interested in finding funding for research to explore the underlying biological mechanisms.

  [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32444061/