[PopAlongKid]

It is about a small number of employees in Ireland. Maybe "Ireland" should be added to the title?

In the U.S. (I'm not familar with Ireland), vested benefits, whether defined or contributed, cannot be "clawed back". But unvested ones can, that's what "unvested" means.

[michpoch]

I think it should not be added. There are so many US-only news and we’re not adding the “in USA”.

Please do not assume default = USA.

[medellin]

You just argued why you should be the country in the title but then somehow came to the wrong conclusion

[michpoch]

I just have realistic expectations what I can achieve in this calm Sunday evening.

[zdragnar]

The news is really specific to Ireland due to Irish tax laws.

Why shouldn't this very relevant context be in the title?

[Nullabillity]

Stripe is doing it despite not having to. Where it's happening is irrelevant.

[unethical_ban]

Your first paragraph signals US is the default.

I discovered today that stripe is half based in Ireland. It would add valuable context to say which of its two countries this story refers to, since it involves country specific pension setups.

[makeitdouble]

“Default” and “status quo” aren’t the same.

Also, this publication is from the Business Post, which is based in Dublin (domain being “businesspost.ie” is clear about this point, and it’s already next to the title). That seems enough of a hint to me that this news might have Irish components.

[fragmede]

Regrettably, due to USA's brand of capitalism, these days, the word pension means it's probably not a USA thing.

[ghaff]

There are pros and cons to defined benefit (i.e. pension in US speak) and defined contribution (e.g. 401-k) plans. Among other things, defined benefit plans--when they were more common--were mostly oriented around people staying at the same company for a decade or more. Usually if you just stayed for 2-3 years you got nothing or almost nothing.

[lotsofpulp]

There is almost no value to paying someone else to manage your retirement funds when you can do the same thing they do for 0.03% to 0.08% expense ratios with a target date retirement fund from vanguard/Schwab/fidelity or mix and match the various broad market stock/bond funds.

[ghaff]

There often seems to be an implicit assumption that the money funding defined benefit contributions came from a magic money tree somewhere (or at least did so until it turned out that the tree wasn't producing enough).

I know in the years that I was earning into a deferred benefit plan, I barely gave it a passing thought. And, had you asked me if I would prefer cash or for the equivalent to be funneled into some opaque benefits system that would hopefully pay out someday, I'm pretty sure what I would have chosen.

Are some people better with defined benefits? Almost certainly. But at some point you're being pretty paternalistic to say you should much less must take that option.

[unethical_ban]

There was a time where it was expected, and then it was taken away. Now, we are all slaves to the broader market with no guarantees, where once we had guarantees.

And coincidentally, wealth inequality is unrivaled in modern times.

[fragmede]

A 401k is not a pension! The nitpick about how much the manager shows how much you've been fooled. Elsewhere, a pension is a government guaranteed faucet of money for retirement.

[lotsofpulp]

Depends on the locality. In the UK, they refer to something similar to 401k as a pension also. The long form would be “defined benefit pension” or “defined contribution pension”.

In the former, you are promised (defined) how much you will get in your retirement, in the latter, you are promised how much will be contributed to your retirement savings (but not how much you will get).

> The nitpick about how much the manager shows how much you've been fooled.

I do not know what this is referring to.

>Elsewhere, a pension is a government guaranteed faucet of money for retirement.

The US has that too, called social security.

[unethical_ban]

Except back then pensions were tied to the company you worked for, and were guaranteed. 401k funds are not guaranteed.

[lotsofpulp]

Assuming the company existed, and was not corrupt in handling all that money. But there is a lot of volatility in a company existing for 50+ years in the future, and there is a lot of corruption.

Hence the tightening of DB pension funding and investment rules (PPA 2006), culminating in non taxpayer funded DB pensions being untenable expensive.

401k funds are as guaranteed as any defined benefit pension. They both get invested into SP500 index funds, and they both get bailed out just the same by the federal government. If the stock market tanks, the DB pension is going down just like any 401k.

[dymk]

The default assumption on this USA based site run by a USA based company is "USA" unless otherwise stated.

[michpoch]

Then it should be news.ycombinator.us

.com is an global domain.

[catiopatio]

“[.com] was originally administered by the United States Department of Defense … and remains under ultimate jurisdiction of U.S. law“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.com

[gggggg5]

That hardly seems relevant? Literally all TLDs are ultimately under US jurisdiction, given that the ICANN is under US jurisdiction.

[catiopatio]

US government built it, a US company runs it, and US law applies to it.

It’s silly to complain that US companies and US-focused sites shouldn’t use it.

[sharkweek]

Helpful information because as someone in the US I assumed the idea of a pension (outside of government jobs) had all but disappeared.

[etothepii]

These won't be "defined benefit" schemes but defined contribution schemes much more akin to your 401(k)

[lotsofpulp]

In the UK (and I assume Ireland), the term pension is used for more than just defined benefit pensions.

[astaunton]

Correct, most pensions in Ireland (these days) are defined contribution. Even within the civil service / government roles it is becoming extremely rare to see defined benefit schemes.

[vdddv]

Thanks for the suggestion. I did not add it because of HN guidelines: "please use the original title" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[loeg]

This sounds exactly like the equivalent of unvested matching.

[sirpunch]

USA has it too. Amazon Software Engineers can't keep their 401K company match if they leave the company before completing 3 years of service.