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by lawn 1251 days ago
No, that's what happens when conspiracy theories instill fear, uncertainty and doubt.
4 comments

We had the news spreading fear, the need to bow to authorities and consumerism, and attacking anyone who tried to think for themselves.

And you attack conspiracy theorists who turned out to be right about a number of aspects of the pandemic?

A broken clock is right twice a day, some of these "predictions" are a coin toss to get right. This doesn't ever make the rest of those talking points more valid.
Some of the critics are biologists who have been right more than the “experts” on TV.

So your comment applies to the establishment voices who straight up lied to the public and some people like yourself seemed to believe the liars. Lol!

You have literally named no names, no predictions, no topic even, there's no substance at all. Yet somehow you have acquired the impression that my comment applies to the group you disagree with, wow.

You are reading too much into things just to confirm your viewpoints you have barely grazed.

> We had the news spreading fear

I always wonder what people mean when they talk about "the news" or "the media". I don't watch any of the 24/7 cable stuff (I last had cable in 1999), but I get the impression its what actually drives the perception of whatever this unitary entity is believed to be thinking/scheming at any moment. So I'm somewhat blind/deaf to a lot of this zeitgeist, though I understand that like any media, they long ago cracked the code that negative engagement is more profitable, and so yes, scaremongering is part of the job, and so I tend to avoid it.

That said, I knew people who died from Covid, the latest just a few weeks ago. When my parents, who aren't young anymore got it, I was pretty fearful for them.

Conspiracy theories spread after good faith goes out of the window. They don't cause the loss of good faith.
I'm not sure I agree completely. Certainly over the pandemic I saw conspiracies appear right from the start, and then the goalposts shifted on most of them to fit around the current situation and messaging. I think a handful of people took huge advantage of a difficult situation to further their own agenda.

That said, I absolutely agree 'normal' people were pushed to the limit in a way that made them look for anything that made sense of what was happening around them.

Conspiracy theories spread when you let a medium that profits off "engagement" take over humanity's social fabric.

Back in the day that kind of crazy was relegated to the dark corners of the Internet and you had to explicitly seek it out.

Nowadays social media apps that claim to make it easier to connect with your family/friends will happily push these in front of you, knowing that getting you deep into that rabbit hole is likely to net them more "engagement".

The net result is that naive but well-meaning people who originally just wanted to keep in touch with friends/family got sucked deep into this bullshit.

Much of the COVID anti vaccine bullshit spun right out of the existing anti vax movement.
That is not true, they were there from start. They don't require any wrongdoing on the part of their "ennemies".
When did you switch from hating masks to loving masks? What caused your switch? Why caused you to hate them before you loved them? Was it a conspiracy?
Let's make the exceptionally charitable assumption that you are asking this question in good faith...

Nobody that listened to public health experts ever "hated" masks. But initially, they didn't rush out to buy masks because the advice was to prioritise isolating the infected, social distancing for everyone else and clean hands to avoid [overestimated risk of] contact transmission, and not to rely on masks to protect you from infected people because there was no evidence they would offer that protection (the only masks they had reasonable confidence might work were far too limited in supply to stop it on a population level)

The recommendation changed (pretty quickly, based on stronger evidence of aerosol transmission and asymptomatic transmission and COVID being sufficiently widespread to make altogether avoiding contagious people unrealistic) to suggesting that although social distancing was recommended because cloth masks alone were insufficiently effective at preventing infection, masks were better than nothing and so on a population scale wearing them in public places would slow infection rates. At this point - even though I'd already had the infection - I started wearing a mask to the supermarket because apart from it being logical, it was also required to enter. It wasn't much of an imposition, and subsequent evidence largely supports the reduced transmission risk.

I think the question works better in reverse. When was it you switched from being angry at the CDC for telling you not to bother with the masks because they couldn't altogether prevent infection so you were better off avoiding people with COVID altogether to being angry at the CDC for recommending masks in public places to somewhat reduce risk of infection? What was the scientific evidence that lead you to change your mind?

You're re-writing history. The existence of airborne diseases has been known for hundreds of years, and masks have been used for more than a hundred.

In Asia they were using masks from the start, just like they did with the original SARS.

But with this second SARS doctors/WHO were saying that surgical masks had no effect and that Asians don't know what they're doing.

Then, masks not only had no effect, they were bad for you.

Then, all of a sudden masks were good. Cloth masks were good too. And you had doctors showing you how to make masks out of t-shirts.

Then masks were so good you had to wear them by force.

Then cloth masks had no effect. Then surgical masks had no effect. Only N95 and above were good.

It was absolute roller coaster, and with every turn (excused with “the science has changed”) doctors were hammering a nail into the coffin of public acceptance of science.

I love the irony of being lectured about "rewriting history" from someone arguing that the WHO adopted the position that "Asians don't know what they're doing" and "masks not only had no effect, they were bad for you"...
> The recommendation changed (pretty quickly, based on stronger evidence of aerosol transmission and

This is not only backwards, it is hilariously so: Aerosol transmission was only partially accepted a year or more after the mask push. People still resist it even now. The whole reason masks were supposed to work was the assumption that it was entirely droplet transmission.

The people who believed it was aerosol spread that first year were the ones against masking, because the virus is too small to be stopped by cloth masks.

Funny that, because I can find references to likely aerosol transmission and the assumption that cloth masks would reduce aerosol transmission to a small degree in the early 2020 minutes of the body that later recommended mask mandates (on the basis reducing stuff to a small degree is important when reducing pandemic spread...) in my country

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Not all aerosol particles are the same size, and particles don't have to be smaller than holes they pass through for a grid of fibre to obstruct a significant proportion of them. The change in guidance wasn't a conclusion masks were a panacea, they were a reflection that even a small degree of protection was better than no protection in a situation where existing measures weren't slowing its spread fast enough.

The people who were against masking on principle by and large didn't care what degree it reduced it by, because they just didn't want to be told to wear masks.

Who said anything about masks? And why does everything have to be black or white? I personally never hated masks. Never loved them either. But I understand how they help and when they don't.
Conspiracy theories is the weeds that sprawl when common sense is sterilized with dogma.
No, it's the weeds that sprawl when education is constantly underfunded, demonized and people's access to good education is constantly hindered. All while idiocies are given the same amount of platform as rigorous methods out of "need for a debate" when there was going to be none to begin with.

It's not "dogma" to "sterilize" some fringe idiocies, just implying that is often pretty much helping that sewer just fester under our noses.

tl;dr "I know the truth. All objections are fringe idiocies. There is no need for debate. Just give me the mic, shut up and listen."

I remember reading about how Lenin dealt with opposition. He never argued with them on public, as it could damage his image and undermine his dogma. Instead, he ferociously attacked the opponent himself: demonized him, called him names, and later got rid of him.

Now you're just projecting, I don't see where else you could've gotten that TL;DR from.

I've heard similar comparisons to dictators from flat-earthers, that tells me a lot. I get the impression you wish you'd be oppressed, demonized, instead of ridiculed. But the latter is all it deserves, a laugh in the face and the door shut.