[rsj_hn]

A lot of people assert that EVs have a lower cost of ownership, but there just isn't a lot of data to support that. Yes, on the one hand you have fewer moving parts. On the other you have a huge amount of new tech and a rapacious service model.

For example, Teslas are more expensive to maintain than the ICE industry average - $832 versus $650 for other cars. https://jalopnik.com/advisor/tesla-maintenance-cost/#:~:text....

In terms of fuel, well that very much depends on what happens to electricity prices when a lot of people start plugging in their EVs. Again, people assume they will just remain the same in response to an increase in demand, but color me skeptical. The only way electricity prices can avoid rapidly increasing is if it becomes illegal for you to plug in your EV.

You should in general be suspicious of anyone making claims about total cost of ownership calculations, and heavily discount such claims -- whether it is your local IBM/Oracle salesman or your local car salesman. It is usually a mechanism to justify higher up front purchase prices. Next time someone refuses to be price competitive with other options but makes an appeal to TCO, ask them to put that into writing -- that your TCO will be lower otherwise you will get a refund on the purchase price. Just watch their mouth drop.

[huijzer]

And it sort of makes sense that ICE’s are cheaper to maintain. There is about 100 years of experience with building reliable engines and doing maintenance on those things versus about 12 years for EV.

Also ICE’s are still way ahead in energy density (energy per kilogram/pound) even if you count the big engine with it

[rsj_hn]

I wouldn't at all be surprised if we get a flood of relatively cheap to maintain EVs from China, as a parallel of the durable and cheap cars we got from Japan in the 80s. Except this time, it wont be so much that the components themselves are reliable as that they are standardized and all the DRM is removed so that they can be affordably serviced. I don't think the future is very bright for domestic auto makers. First, they foolishly declare they will stop selling ICE vehicles, handing that entire market segment over to asian competitors, and then they screw the pooch with EVs via user-hostile designs. 2021 was the first year since the 1930s that GM wasn't the best selling car maker, being dethroned by Toyota - a company that really does make lower TCO vehicles.

[anovikov]

With EVs that won't be a problem - they are absurdly cheap to maintain. With Tesla, things are a lot simpler. Original buyers were the people who were excited to own an EV. Now that EVs has gone mainstream, that segment is gone, and people became more attentive to details of the cars they buy. And, Tesla's interiors suck. Model 3 looks like a dirt cheap Chinese car, Model S like a mid-range European family car. Exterior is cool, but inside it feels like a car 3x it's cheaper. I can imagine it becoming a major impediment in sales now as the "early adopters" market is fulfilled.

Then again, maybe it's OK in U.S. where most of the cars are crappy on the inside - my ex had an American BMW X5 and it felt like cheap crap too, quite unlike it's European cousin. But it won't fly here in Europe.

[bryanlarsen]

GM sales are up 2.5% in 2022 and Toyota's are down 10%, giving the crown back to GM.