[giardia]

edit: I was mistaken, OR still hasn't done this, but there's been a big push for it in the past year or two and it's still a dumb idea.

They've done this in Oregon to keep carbon emissions down which is a huge mistake IMO. Many rural communities do not have a very reliable grid (I'm in one of them), and the state has done nothing to improve it (this is going to be a big issue when everyone is driving an electric vehicle). This is especially concerning during winter storms when you really need to be able to heat something up.

The winter storm of 2019 for instance had me stuck at home for at least two weeks in 3-4 feet of snow. All electrical was down the entire time, pipes were frozen solid despite leaving taps running, and I had to melt snow for drinking water. Most people don't understand just how much energy melting snow consumes until they've done it themselves -- my stove was going all day long, nonstop. Had I had an electric stove, I would have had to rely on my wood stove but many people don't have that option. The only other realistic option would be to rely on a generator, but for an electric range you're going to both need a big ginny and a lot of fuel on hand for it.

A better approach IMO would be to legislate better kitchen hoods and ventilation, and to focus on educating people of the hazards of using gas. Also funding a more resilient grid.

[miguelazo]

Seems like the better approach to address the problem you raise would be to harden the electric grid, which needs to happen anyway for wildfire safety, extreme weather, etc. State governments and even the feds need to mandate burying cables and upgrading old equipment. Gas lines are not foolproof either, just look at what happened in Texas.

[rootusrootus]

> Gas lines are not foolproof either, just look at what happened in Texas.

That was above-ground equipment at natural gas power plants. It takes a hell of a freeze to affect below-grand natural gas pipes. We've had a couple really hard freezes here and the only thing that worked fine was natural gas, while we were out of electricity & internet for the better part of a week.

[trefoiled]

What do you mean by "a better approach" here? The key is that the poster you responded to survived by virtue of owning a gas stove, so it seems to me like step 1 is simply not banning them, which costs nothing and requires no work. If I were in their situation, I would demand that the grid be made so reliable that this situation be impossible even in a hundred year storm, before a ban even be considered.

[miguelazo]

No one is banning gas stoves entirely. It's banning gas in new construction. If you're trying to survive a 100 year storm, you're better off with a Coleman camp stove running off of a propane cylinder.

[trefoiled]

I understand why a Coleman camp stove might be a viable substitute, but why would you be better off with a system which performs worse in every way? This perspective also sweeps aside the living conditions of rural Americans, many of whom own a large gas tank which is refilled a few times a year via truck. They go this route because many regional electrical grids are simply not reliable enough even in the absence of a major storm, and a gas connection is not possible.

[jcadam]

> Coleman camp stove running off of a propane cylinder.

And people will be running those inside w/o proper ventilation whereas they could have been using a much safer gas range.

[miguelazo]

We're talking about emergency situations. A few days of that is still nothing compared to several years with a gas stove, even with "proper ventilation," which is pretty rare in my experience.

[mfer]

This “fix” would cost billions and take years to implement. You would also have to deal with companies against the loss of pole rights and the control that goes along with it. It’s basically costly, time consuming, and politically messy.

People need a solution until something like that can be pulled off.

[giardia]

I agree, but it's a thorny political problem. Nobody wants to pay for burying the lines, even after above ground lines caused one of the biggest fires in state history. Rural communities can't afford it, and the county or state won't pay for it.

[trilbyglens]

Harden? I'd be happy if they were even maintained, much less hardened. There is zero reason that densely built areas can't have buried lines.

[miguelazo]

I hear you. It should have been a big part of the IRA. Would be a great jobs corps program a la New Deal. Who knows, maybe something for the next big recession.

[seanp2k2]

So long as we have politicians that absolutely refuse to pass any infrastructure bills, for-profit energy companies doing things like NEM 3.0 and somehow making harnessing the free sunlight with rooftop solar a financially non-viable option, and voters that continue to support them despite these things, what can realistically be done?

[sixstringtheory]

Melting snow definitely takes a long time and lots of energy but it shouldn’t take all day. I’ve done it plenty in the mountains, and at home when I lived in a dry cabin and would go under budget on our hauled water, but needed to do dishes and didn’t want to make a special trip for more.

One thing a lot of people mistakenly do is just throw a ton of snow into a pot and put it over a flame. Heat melts ice, right? Well, turns out that snow dissipates heat really well, and will sublimate while insulating the snow further inside the bulk of the mass.

You have to wet down the snow to conduct the heat throughout the mass. If you pour in some water to start, it gets the reaction going much better. And then leave some water behind to melt the next batch of snow.

You also want to use the widest pot you can find and keep a lid on it.

Not calling you a liar or saying you did it wrong, just leaving this tip here for others!

[giardia]

I probably didn't use the best technique for melting tbh, it was filling a stock pot and popping it on the stove, then adding more snow as it melted.

[rootusrootus]

> They've done this in Oregon

Can you elaborate? I haven't seen anything banning gas stoves here. Eugene is talking about it, Multnomah County commissioned a report recently on the topic, but who is banning natural gas stoves? Much less at the state level?

[giardia]

I must be mistaken, I swore I heard about this getting passed on OPB about 6 months ago to phase them out in the next decade.

[rootusrootus]

I would guess some people are definitely taking about it. I hear about it more and more. And I won't be surprised if they do try to take some action, though I don't think I'd want to see mandates myself.

But I had a 240V circuit run to my cooktop location a few months ago in anticipation of converting to induction myself. Getting close to pulling the trigger.

[inetknght]

> A better approach IMO would be to legislate better kitchen hoods and ventilation

Or... residential carbon capture for cooking/heating?

[trilbyglens]

Or... regulating the shit out of highly polluting industries and making it seem like people's gas ranges are the reason we're going to blow past 3°? :D

[theGnuMe]

Local solar…

[giardia]

That would work great in the summer if the community has space and exposure. Winter in a mountain valley, not so much.