[rcarr]

> It is extremely difficult to find an accurate figure for the number of managers in the NHS, and most sources of information use different definitions for who is counted as a manager.

I’m not sure I can take the report seriously after that. You can’t write a report on management in the NHS and refuse to give a definition of manager. Also, how many of these managers are directly employed by the NHS and how many are employed as consultants?

I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong but that report is hand wavey.

[DanBC]

The Kings Fund is a credible source of information about the NHS systems in England, Scotland, Wales, and NI. One of the reasons that they're credible is because they're cautious about definitions. In your quote they're saying "lots of people have written about this, and they all use slightly different definitions for management, and so they all give different numbers".

What is a manager? Are you only including non-clinical staff? Or do clinical staff count too? If you're including clinical staff, how many hours of their working week are you counting as clinical hours and how many are you counting as managerial hours? Are you converting people who work part time as managers to Full Time Equivalent positions, or not?

If you want to poke the data it's here: https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/sta...

If you want more description of the complications of counting managers in the NHS I found these useful (if a bit old now):

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/future-leadership-...

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/general-election-2010/...

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care...

[rcarr]

Looking at the chart on https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/general-election-2010/... it looks like consultants are taking more than their fair share

[rcarr]

Thank you I will look into this.