[smartbear]

Companies don't produce joy, but your own work might. For example, I know many software developers who love writing code, even the code specifically for their job. If you love solving infrastructure puzzles, you might find joy at any at-scale software company (that isn't contrary to your values of course).

You bring up a good point, though, that "joy" isn't just the immediate work at hand, but also the entire context that you're in. I agree with that. Perhaps the argument about work alone, makes sense under the assumption that the larger context is also compatible with your values. If not, perhaps no specific activity will be joyous, and joining a different organization is the only solution?

So perhaps "joy" is still a valid thing to seek, but you're pointing out that it's more complex than just "do I like my current task?"

[safety1st]

I tend to think that many people try to over-optimize for joy in their work when doing so is impractical. Context definitely matters. As a founder or early employee you have comparatively a lot more agency in terms of shaping your work environment. At bigger companies you have much less, and you probably don't even understand the context your work matters in. At the end of the day everyone's really working for the board and the shareholders, but in most cases employees can't even tell you who those people even are, let alone what they care about. (Hint, at a sufficiently large public company, it's a good bet that people like managers of pension funds which bought your stock have some very big voices, and barely know what your company's vision is, let alone care, and that's just the nature of the game.)

It's this reality which leads to people inevitably feeling betrayed by a company as it grows - e.g. everyone thinking that "Don't be evil" was a thing Google could and would live up to after becoming successful. But at modern Google scale it is just not a realistic expectation.

There's always another path which is to take a more holistic look at life and say "I may not get a ton of joy from my job, but I source joy from other things that my job enables, so that's OK."

[rammy1234]

Yes agreed. Joy needs to be pursued, but I believe trying to find joy at work is futile for most and few are lucky. Starting your company with intent of seeking joy might work. But how many start a company though !! I am not against this concept of Ikigai, but I am trying to understand how I can apply on my current situation ( being practical )