[garbagecoder]

I was just in Lisbon yesterday. I recommend the Lisbon Winery for a lesson in port wine and great food. It’s a nice city, the level of English is high, but it’s not as modern as other European cities. Plus, who wants a horde of cryptobros anyway? What “innovative” about tulipomaniacs?

As for Airbnb, that’s the same is most touristy cities and it’s not just because of nomads.

[ajsnigrutin]

> As for Airbnb, that’s the same is most touristy cities and it’s not just because of nomads.

Cities should be for citizens... tourists belong in hotels.

[thefounder]

What if the citizens want to make an extra buck renting their property?

[paranoidrobot]

The idea we were sold: Rent your spare room, Rent out your whole place while you're away.

The reality: Capital-rich folks buy up properties purely to run AirBNBs.

Almost all of the benefits go to the owners.

Almost all of the downsides go to the neighbours, suburbs and others who are competing to rent/own there.

[ajsnigrutin]

There's a difference between (long-term) renting and airbnb.

Just ask the neighbours, who normally don't care about long-term renters and complain a lot about ever-changing tourists and all the issues that brings (from safety to loud parties).

You cannot have a factory in the middle of a residential zone, why can you have (what is effectively a single room) hotel?

[rcruzeiro]

I lived from 2014 to 2016 in a really cosy flat with a sloped ceiling in downtown Lisbon. I literally moved away from there solely because the unit beneath mine turned into an AirBnb rental and there were constant loud parties all night long pretty much every other day. Not to mention people leaving the building door open, the rapid degradation of the stairwell with all the tourists dragging their suitcases (and the fact that the parties often extended to the stairwell).

[dysoco]

The problem is when housing prices are at an all time high and it's almost impossible to find somewhere to rent, even with money in your pocket, because the landlord decided it's much more profitable to do weekly air-bnbs to tourists.

[simplotek]

> The problem is when housing prices are at an all time high and it's almost impossible to find somewhere to rent, even with money in your pocket (...)

I have to call bullshit on this one. A few years ago I moved to a different country and I had an awful time trying to find an apartment to rent. Between awfully expensive flats and squalors, I was forced to extend my stay at an hotel for an additional month. This all ended when I managed to land a flat in a airbnb-like service. It was cheaper than half the apartments I visited at the time, and right in the city center. I spent over a month in that apartment and eventually landed a decent long-term rental, but if it wasn't for the airbnb-like service either I would be forced to burn through cash to stay at hotels or settle with being exploited by abusive landlords. Midway through I even considered just sticking with the airbnb-like service even though I'd risk being out-booked.

Perhaps people like you could spend a minute thinking things through and consider why there is demand for offers somewhere between hotels and long-term rentals, which frequently are completely out of reach of those who have to move to a new city in a short notice.

[ajsnigrutin]

There would be a lot more long-term rentals available if there was no airbnb (because airbnb is the reason that you were unable to find a long-er term rental in the first place).

Limit the rentals to 1 month (or 2) minimum and you have all the bases covered.

[avmich]

How come in so many markets suppliers seek the demand and glad to have it, but in real estate market instead of cheerfully increasing the supply there are complaints, proposal to limit and in general offers to do something unusual where the goal could seemingly be achieved by more housing...

[barry-cotter]

> airbnb is the reason that you were unable to find a long-er term rental in the first place).

No, the reason for that is that demand exceeds supply. The reason demand exceeds supply is that voters don’t want more people living there. Democracy gives the people what they want, good and hard.

[Melting_Harps]

> Perhaps people like you could spend a minute thinking things through and consider why there is demand for offers somewhere between hotels and long-term rentals, which frequently are completely out of reach of those who have to move to a new city in a short notice.

Like a lot of HN, many people have lots of opinions on things they have neither done or have experienced first hand but seem to be most vocal on such matters.

Agreed, I don't blame Airbnb or it's counterparts in other countries, they are just capitalizing on the larger (systemic but ultimately manufactured) housing crisis because the greater issue is with making real estate holdings the only way to accrue or retain any wealth as more and more of the real economy gets hallowed out.

I personally leveraged my first Airbnb stay as an early adopter and did what they say 'you should never do' and ultimately cut them out as a needless middle man and made return trips for several years without them in the off-season and got an even better rate!

Alternatively, I've paid rental agencies who did nothing but list their property on their website and provided a day to see the place and not much else as I met with the owner's myself had to find translation solutions and ultimately saw how they added just as much if not less value than Airbnb in the over all process of finding a rental home/apartment and saw that it's a symptom not the cause of the malaise we see since 2008 crisis and perhaps even before in the dotcom bubble in 2000 that made 2008 inevitable.

People want an easy scapegoat, and while I agree real-estate and landlords are predatory by design I still don't think Airbnb is to blame here and I don't even think they are a 'good' business, in fact I stopped using them entirely despite being an early adopter, but they've used their platform to house more people in certain crisis' than even some nation-states have.

[dysoco]

> Why there is demand for offers somewhere between hotels and long-term rentals, which frequently are completely out of reach of those who have to move to a new city in a short notice.

You see that's the problem, I'm not in the US or Europe, long-term rentals are traded in local currency, in a price reasonable to the local economy, whereas AirBnbs are traded in USD at a more global price reasonable for tourists (which is crazy expensive for us, considering our minimum wage is pennies in USD).

Moreover, long-term rentals have certain regulations that favor tenants, like, you can't raise the prices a massive amount compared to inflation while the contract is valid, etc. AirBnbs are not regulated.

[vineyardmike]

There is a reason to have tourists in hotels beyond government control and taxation. But not everything in life has to be centered around a desire to profit.

Usage patterns and resource usage of residents and tourists are not equal. Tourists tend to need less space (since they just sleep there) and tend to be noisier (since they don't usually have a worker's schedule, and/or may be loud while vacationing). They tend to have different transit usage from locals, and they tend to travel to different parts of the city. All of this causes un-even wear on the resources and infrastructure within the city.

[spookie]

It's impossible to pay rent in Lisbon while earning median salary as one person (855€ average rent for 1 bedroom apartment vs 1200€ median salary).

At this point, there's no reason for anyone new to go live there.

[siquick]

My partner and I moved to Lisbon about 6 years ago. We lasted 3 months after it became clear that the rent was more expensive than what we had just been paying in Sydney.

[garbagecoder]

I love how this HN thread immediately turned against tourists and ignored the impact of the cryptobros.

[nibbleshifter]

There are a lot of tourists, and a comparatively tiny number of "crypto bros".

When it comes to shit like Airbnb, etc, in cities such as Lisbon, the "crypto bros" are less than a fraction of a percent.

[ChuckNorris89]

Simple, tax their short term Airbnb rental side hustle until they have second thoughts about this and maybe then they rent it instead to a long term tenant who actually needs it like a local student or worker.

[DoingIsLearning]

The main aspect of Airbnb being attractive in Portugal is that rental laws are very biased to tenants. It is quite literally almost impossible to evict. Also in general civil court cases are backlogged for years.

Airbnb will probably feel like neo-liberal haven for these landlords.