[mrkurt]

You're arguing the semantics of a monopoly, but you should just mentally replace the word "monopoly" with "market power".

When Apple buys components from a vendor, they have less market power. When they build their own components, they have more market power.

Both Apple and Amazon shipped their own ARM chips. This increased their market power. Because they're the only companies with access to those chips. Meanwhile, independent ARM vendors go out of business about once every 3 months because the biggest companies using ARM aren't part of their addressable market. Which means small companies have limited access to ARM CPUs.

When Amazon builds their own delivery company, they increase their market power. When they buy from Fedex and UPS, they decrease their market power. And, when they do their own deliveries, they limit competitors market power.

You can be fine with all of this. Those of us who are interested in competitive markets worry about it a lot. You don't have to be worried about competitive markets, though. It's totally valid to not think increased competition is a good thing.

There is a lot of nuance here. If you're stuck on the word monopoly, I don't think you're going to really hear the things antitrust folks have to say.

[scarface74]

> You're arguing the semantics of a monopoly,

Yes “words mean things”.

> When Apple buys components from a vendor, they have less market power. When they build their own components, they have more market power

So now you’re saying a company shouldn’t be allowed to build and design their own components? Doesn’t it help competition that Apple, Microsoft, Google, Qualcomm, and MediaTek among others are creating and modifying their own processors?

> Which means small companies have limited access to ARM CPUs.

Any company can buy an ARM processor from Qualcomm and MediaTek. Have you looked at all of the phone manufacturers who sell in China and India and even the US?

> Those of us who are interested in competitive markets worry about it a lot. You don't have to be worried about competitive markets, though. It's totally valid to not think increased competition is a good thing.

Every market you mentioned has a competitor that third parties can go to - ARM chips, delivery companies etc.

[fallingknife]

Vertical integration doesn't decrease competition, it increases it. If there are N companies in a market, and a company that purchases from one decides to vertically integrate.and enter the market, now there are N+1.

[mrkurt]

Only if they sell into the market.

Almost no one who vertically integrates competes in the market they just shook. You can't get Amazon to ship things for you, so they don't compete with Fedex and UPS. You can't by an M1 chip from Apple.

Vertical integration is all about shrinking markets, not adding to them.

[shagie]

So what would your market look like?

What can Apple make? What must Apple buy from other suppliers? How much are investors allowed to punish Apple's stock price (like they are currently encountering https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/01/08/why-is-apple-sto... ) or can they buy everything a company produces? Are others allowed to buy a company that only has Apple as a client and raise the prices?

Can Amazon work at improving distribution center efficiency with technology that they create? Or must they buy it from someone else?

Must Google create a business unit to sell its highly customized routers?