[ricardobayes]

It's interesting to look at feudal tax rates. It varied between countries but the concept of "thirteenth" seems to be common, based on what I see it used to be between 2% and 10% of "revenue". I wonder when did we normalize 40-60% taxation. Seems we made a wrong turn somewhere. Perhaps our convenient modern life wouldn't be sustainable on such low taxes, but maybe it would - looking at Monaco or Dubai firmly at 0%.

[PeterisP]

The rate of taxation depends on what is the maximum possible rate, what is the available surplus that can be extracted while still enabling the workers to survive and 'reinvest' in things that affect productivity.

In earlier times a farming community of e.g. 20 farmer families simply did not produce enough surplus to feed 20 other families; if someone would tax them half of their harvest, then they would starve, eat their seed grain and breeding animals, and there would be nothing to tax next year. A 10% tax was probably the limit of what could be sustained long-term.

On the other hand, as people become more productive, it became possible to devote a larger share of that production to goals beyond the survival needs of the household.

[zozbot234]

A direct outcome of the growth of the administrative and regulatory state throughout the 20th century. High government spending must always be balanced by high taxes, an increase in the national debt, or both.

[HEmanZ]

Idk what country you’re paying 40-60% tax in. I make very good money in the US and I don’t pay close to that.

Using the US as an example, most people pay an effective tax rate of 20%. This is equivalent to a peasant getting a 10% tax and their 10% tithe to the church, so it’s not far off.

Basically we’ve moved redistribution/welfare from the control of the church to the state. In medieval times these were effectively the same thing anyways.

[arbuge]

You are probably not counting all the other US taxes: payroll, property, sales, state income tax, business taxes, etc. If you only consider personal federal income tax, the picture will of course appear rosier than it really is.

Once you include other taxes, the overall figure climbs rapidly. It's already almost 30% counting just federal income tax, social security, and medicare, and none of the other taxes mentioned above.

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-the-average-american-pa....

"The OECD reported that the U.S. "tax wedge" for the average single worker was 28.4% in 2021." ... "The OECD tax wedge only includes these three taxes: income, Social Security, and Medicare. It doesn’t include sales, property, vehicle, or state income taxes."

[ricardobayes]

Lots, in Europe. Top brackets which are really easy to reach in most cases - think 50-60k per annum: Austria 55% Denmark 55% France 52% Sweden 53% And so on...

[automatic6131]

>I wonder when did we normalize 40-60% taxation

It's generally common, these days, to blame everything that isn't perfect on the state. Pandemic? State must sort it out. Bad parents? State. Interpersonal violence? State. Crime? State. Infrastructure needed? State. Children are hungry? State.

For better or ill (and I'd say better) 40% taxation is here to stay, since we have all become left wing, now.

[ricardobayes]

I mean, there's a "slight" difference between taxing 10% vs 50%, so I guess it's kind of okay to demand some things in return.

[secabeen]

>Pandemic? State must sort it out. Bad parents? State. Interpersonal violence? State. Crime? State. Infrastructure needed? State. Children are hungry? State.

> For better or ill (and I'd say better) 40% taxation is here to stay, since we have all become left wing, now.

I think it's largely better, because people who are impacted by those incidents in an outsized way often become revolutionaries, or radicals, and they tear down the state that has failed to support them. I'd rather pay 30-40% tax and have a stable government and a low-crime society than a 15-20% one and have to pay for my own personal security and to worry if the next government is going to decide that my property is to be seized.

[rpvnwnkl]

Average tax rate in the US appears to be less than 20%