[csmeder]

Something I don’t understand:

Patagonia's stated mission is to save the earth and microplastics entering the oceans is a major environmental concern. However, it is also true that many of Patagonia's clothes are made from synthetic materials such as plastic. The use of synthetic materials in clothing (and each washing) greatly contribute to the problem of microplastics in the oceans.

I’m I missing something? Is the above wrong? Or is Patagonia lying about their mission driven approach?

[Arbortheus]

Saving the earth is a complex aim with so many different areas to prioritise. Synthetics may produce micro plastics, but then natural fibers like cotton require huge amounts of pesticides and water, viscose or bamboo requires a shit load of chemicals. Carbon footprints for almost all textiles are big. Recycled plastic is a low carbon, no pesticide, low impact material with one downside - micro plastics.

Polyester is one of the few success stories around recycled plastic. It’s not like the alternative is to turn your old plastic bottle into a new plastic bottle, plastic recycling is almost always downcycling the material into a lower grade product.

Like most things around conservation and the environment, it is complicated and there are loads of stakeholders - biodiversity, micro plastics, chemical accumulation, CO2 and greenhouse gases, deforestation, waste management, just to name a few.

One thing we can be sure of is the best thing is to not buying new clothes. In fact this philosophy should be applied to every consumer good. Making things is extremely bad for the environment. Patagonia have been pretty consistent around this point, for example as far back as 2001 they had their “don’t buy this jacket” ad: https://blog.yorksj.ac.uk/jovanalleshi/patagonia-sustainabil...

This is the elephant in the room that most consumer goods companies don’t want to talk about. They can make things out of bamboo or produce paper straws or have recyclable packaging, but fundamentally even environmentally friendly products have a huge environmental impact.

Ultimately Patagonia’s mission statement is at odds with the reason it or any company exists. Saving the earth isn’t profitable.

[maeil]

> This is the elephant in the room that most consumer goods companies don’t want to talk about

If it was just companies not wanting to talk about this, things would be fine. Problem is that neither policymakers, nor common citizens want to talk about this apart from a miniscule minority. This includes the overwhelming majority of those who claim to espouse eco-friendly values and to be willing to make lifestyle changes to stick to them. If you're not buying less new things, including e.g. doing a house renovation using new materials, you're almost certainly far less eco-friendly than the less wealthy who can't afford these things in the first place. One might try to placate their conscience by buying indulgences in the form of donations to climate causes but this doesn't really work.

Even what's commonly thought to be the biggest elephant in the room, "having kids is the worst thing you can do for the environment", is all but a sibling of the "making things is extremely bad" elephant, as the former is bad only because of the latter. If youre raising your kids in the woods living off the land like hunter-gatherers, or if you're raising them at the wealth level of the average Sierra Leonean child, having one isn't bad for the environment all.

[mistrial9]

agree and good post BUT "Saving the earth isn’t profitable" is too simple, and gives ammo to those with different agendas

[Arbortheus]

Yeah, I did debate not including that part. I think I would elaborate by saying…

Saving the earth isn’t profitable for companies in the business of making consumer products (in most cases).

But for companies that make essential sustainable products/technologies and services like wind farms, or various green technologies, or electric car infrastructure, or waste-to-energy plants, or recycling plants, or any number of things we will need to reach net-0 carbon, there will be a lot of jobs and profit to be made while also advancing humanity and helping solve this big problem.

[LarsAlereon]

The flawed premise is that synthetic clothing significantly contributes to microplastic pollution, particularly in the ocean. Plastic pollution in the ocean comes primarily from fishing gear like nets, debris unintentionally released by major storms and wave events, and countries that use rivers leading to the ocean as primary waste disposal. If you want to make a difference to plastic pollution, advocate for sustainable fishing practices, end shipping waste overseas for fake recycling (Patagonia really recycling helps this), and support programs to establish waste collection and disposal in countries that don't have it.

Standard sewage treatment processes also capture most microplastic with the solid waste, if you live somewhere with sewage treatment.

[davejohnclark]

I was stunned to read that, in the UK, after carefully separating out the microplastics with the solid waste, that waste is then... spread on farmland as fertiliser, microplastics and all.

>In the UK, of the sewage sludge screened out by treatment works, 87% is sent to farms. The microplastics so carefully removed from wastewater by the treatment process are then spread across the land in the sewage sludge the water companies sell to farmers as fertiliser.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/26/microp...

[im3w1l]

I wonder if you could treat the sludge to get rid of it? Break the plastics down with heat (dry, burn, rehydrate?) or some enzyme?

[bamboozled]

Burn it in a high heat furnace and capture the emissions?

[nonethewiser]

What's more sustainable than using fur from an animal that needs to be sheared of it for it's own health?

Patagonia uses synthetics because they're cheap.

[bamboozled]

Patagonia also makes clothing from recyled furs such as wool, what's your point? This is of course way better for the environment than virgin wool because...you know why..

[mjamesaustin]

They have a page on it here: https://www.patagonia.com/stories/an-update-on-microfiber-po...

The short of it is that all product manufacturing has an impact on the environment, and they are investing in minimizing their impact over time.

Something they note is that the biggest way to reduce impact is to create longer lasting and high quality products, because the less frequently you need to buy something the less pollution you create.

[bamboozled]

I don't think Patagonia is lying, why do you think this ?

They make very high quality clothing which lasts a long time, mostly out of recycled polyester, which is of course better than making more sources of microplastics ?

On the other hand, I purchased a "synchilla" top, it was absolutely ridiculous how much polyester fiber it shed, like absolutely crazy, I was vacuuming my house constantly. In the end it did stop, but it was ridiculously bad. I should've sent it back.

[colechristensen]

I was under the impression that the primary sources of ocean plastics were large usually Asian cities without proper waste management effectively dumping significant portions of their trash in rivers and the ocean as well as ocean fishing waste.

Sure some plastics get into natural water sources from clothes washing, but how much of an issue is this actually compared to other sources?

[Originami]

Regulatory action is needed - specifically, to ban polyesters from Clothing.