[paxys]

Smaller companies do layoffs as well. They just aren't as highly publicized as those at tech giants. Severance packages are usually worse/nonexistent as well.

HFT companies also have much higher performance bars and rates of overwork/burnout. I'm willing to bet that people are leaving Jane Street, Citadel etc. (whether voluntarily or not) at much higher rates than large tech companies like Google.

[caddemon]

Jane Street does much better at retention than Citadel and probably many other quant firms. The performance bar is definitely higher than the average at Google but it's not like there is no WLB either.

Because they are more selective about fit to begin with I wouldn't be surprised if JS has better yearly retention than most FAANGs. People seem to hop between different big tech cos quite a bit (pre hiring freezes anyway).

[lotsofpulp]

I do not see a way to compare big tech companies and Jane Street or Citadel, seeing as how the big tech companies employ many tens of thousands of very qualified people and Jane Street and Citadel are a couple thousand max.

[caddemon]

Yeah there are a lot of differences, I wouldn't normally bring up the comparison. My point was just that the turnover is not as bad as the other commenter was implying.

[mmiyer]

True of Citadel, but Jane Street is supposed to have a solid wlb, and because of the high pay and the few companies willing to pay at that level, people generally stick around there. These kind of finance companies also do better in volatility so they're definitely not laying off right now.

[Ntrails]

I would assume JS has industry standard levels of notice, non-compete and deferred comp - which will sure help keep people around

[caddemon]

Jane Street definitely does not have a non-compete. Citadel does though.

Deferred compensation is probably not relevant to any of the major quant firms, payment is almost entirely cash. If you're high enough up to start receiving stake in a prop firm directly as part of your bonus you are an order of magnitude above the TC cited by the original comment.

Of course, the amount of comp you can get is a big reason people stick around. For that level of earning potential JS is really good on the WLB front. But it's not going to be as good as big tech is (or at least has been), since QT/QR just has different requirements as a field.

[boring_twenties]

When I worked at a small prop shop, the cutoff was $400k TC, after which 50% would go into the fund for N years.

Currently I work at a large bank. My comp is all cash, but many of my colleagues get deferred stock compensation. Not sure what exactly the limit is but it's definitely much less than, say, $1m.

[KMag]

I get the impression that in some jurisdictions, deferred equity compensation kicks in earlier than one would otherwise expect, in order to hit some employment law cut-outs for "highly compensated executives".

I worked over 10 years overseas at a Fortune 500 financial firm where my contract specified that my garden leave period jumped up if I ever accepted stock compensation. I got the feeling that was related to some legal requirements for shedding protections for "highly compensated executives". The garden leave worked out well, as I left right at the end of my paternity leave, so I effectively had almost half a year of paternity leave.

I didn't bother checking if I was getting the maximum legally allowed garden leave period in my jurisdiction, as the contract seemed fair. In any case, in some jurisdictions, I think some deferred equity compensation kicks in earlier than one might expect, in order to legally make more employees highly compensated executives.

I've always lived well within my means at my base salary, but even if I hadn't a good head hunter can often negotiate a signing bonus to partially backfill the lost expected TC , so you're effectively not really going down to your base salary during garden leave.

[caddemon]

Might depend on the firm (or times) then, the starting trader TC is already pushing 600K at HRT, JS, etc. and many don't let you invest year 1 even if you wanted to. I'd be shocked if any of the major names made you take comp as a stake in the fund pre-1m today.

Large banks are for sure a different story, though I've heard of other large banks buying people out that they wanted to hire by offering the equivalent package in their stock of what the guy would've made in the other company's stock.

[Ntrails]

> Deferred compensation is probably not relevant to any of the major quant firms, payment is almost entirely cash.

Deferred != stock.

> If you're high enough up to start receiving stake in a prop firm directly as part of your bonus you are an order of magnitude above the TC cited by the original comment.

Fair

[caddemon]

Yes you could theoretically delay cash comp over a period of 3+ years like tech companies do with stock, but I've never heard of that happening.

I suppose by the technical definition the year end bonus cash is deferred comp, but I don't think 1 year is especially hard to plan around. People might stick out an extra few months because of it but it's not locking anyone in for years at a time. Plus even if you subtracted an entire year from the JS retention rates they are still quite good.

Regardless, the amounts cited by the original comment are only the base which isn't deferred by more than 2 weeks at a time, whatever your bonus potential is.

[Ntrails]

> I've never heard of that happening.

I have heard of it enough that I assume it is industry standard (much like the non compete).

Admittedly I am more familiar with the quant side than pure dev

[KRAKRISMOTT]

When they start letting you put your own cash in, you need cash to start with.