[JumpCrisscross]

> Iran is developing those weapons to ensure their sovereignty

Iran is about as meddlesome in other sovereign states’ affairs as America is. They work to export their influence as much as we do. We do it more and better because we’re bigger. But it’s the same impulse.

So sure, they’re developing nukes to protect their regime. I’m not sure how that’s a hot take, it’s why we have war. The problem is with what and to whom that regime likes doing.

[crisdux]

Well I dont agree it’s the same impulse. Iranian sovereignty is directly influenced by the actions of its immediate neighbors. U.S. doesn’t have the same concerns, as they aren’t even on the same continent. Neither regime has the moral high ground, but the Iranian regime has a more pressing obligation to its people to ensure their survival. The U.S. is the expeditionary force acting in foreign lands. Their actions are not equivalent.

[notahacker]

> the Iranian regime has a more pressing obligation to its people to ensure their survival

I'm not sure survival of the existing regime is high on the list of priorities of the average Iranian person at the moment...

And the subject of the thread is talking about Iran developing long range weapons and sending them and their drone technicians to Russia, which does not border Iran, in order to facilitate its war of aggression against Ukraine, which neither borders Iran nor possesses any credible threat towards it. The idea that when the US extends its military reach around the world it's an expeditionary force in foreign lands but when Iran does it has only the salvation of its people in mind is textbook anti-liberal double standards...

[JumpCrisscross]

> actions of its immediate neighbors

Syria isn’t Iran’s immediate neighbour. Neither are North Africa or Yemen, but there are natural strategic complements to Tehran having influence in each. Same as America. Again, same impulse, different scales. Iran is no Iceland.

[bayesian_horse]

Bullshit. No moral high ground?

The US is no nation governed by Angels, but orders of magnitudes "better" in most regards. Allies of the US fare much better than those of Iran or Russia. Its citizens have orders of magnitude more rights and access to self-fulfillment, among other things. The insistence on Israel not to get wiped out by an Iranian nuke is hardly a questionable goal.

Only the most black-and-white perspective can justify this false equivalency.

[SalmoShalazar]

I don’t know, if we were to go off of “total number of innocent civilians murdered globally” for establishing moral high ground, Iran has done less harm than the United States.

[bayesian_horse]

Totally bogus metric, actually. You again have to ignore the size and historical comparisons. Or that Iran's current regime has tortured, disappeared, executed or murdered tens of thousands of its own citizens. You have to ignore the circumstances and motivations for some of the wars the US forces killed civilians in. You have to ignore that US forces do a lot to avoid killing civilians, while Iran just doesn't give a damn and actually targets those.

If you think Iran is such a good place, you should move there. As you can't see the moral difference between an imperfect democracy and an authocratic regime, you are certainly not capable of defending a democracy.

[AnimalMuppet]

American citizens don't regularly march down the street chanting "Death to Iran", though. I mean, that could be just for show. But I sure don't want them to ever have the means to carry it out, so we could see what they would do...